How to Leave Chicago after a Masters in Public Policy, Return to Bihar, and Build for India - w/ Shreya transcript

I really really wanted to go to Columbia. And my dad would wake up I think we can manage the amount if you want you wanted to come back. Shreya Shashini had a UChicago degree and every reason to fight to stay in the US. She came home to Patna instead and she'll tell you exactly how to make that call. call. Every letter I reached out to was the same answer that they're not sponsoring. sponsoring. On whether coming back is actually worth it. it. The center's focus has also kind of moved to Bihar a little. The next two years Bihar is able to do leapfrog in a few sectors say investment, tourism. On the money that nobody is honest about. about. not do it for free for sure. I will not say that the pay is as hefty as engineering jobs how much they're paying but it's definitely not bad. It's pretty good and if you know the right ways to

you know navigate the right kind of organizations you can end up in good paying jobs as well. And why she was always going to end up home. home. I remember in class seventh one of my teachers asked me what we wanted to do when we grew up and I just said I want to become the Chief Minister of Bihar. Bihar. Please join me in welcoming Shreya Shashini to the Ready Set Go podcast. Without any further ado let's jump in. Shreya really excited to dig into kind of your journey. So the first thing that I noticed on your profile was how does a person that gets a BTech in electrical electronics and communications end up going down the route of public policy? I feel like a big change happened there.

So can you kind of talk us through or take us back to the time where you had just graduated with your BTech degree and kind of talk us through how you ended up getting a a masters um in public policy from that point. I'm very curious to jump off with that. Yeah I think that's kind of become the first question that everyone asks me in personal professional settings everywhere. everywhere. So so yeah, I think so I grew up in Patna in Bihar and as I don't know if how many of you know the context, but Biharis are very very politically inclined. Somehow we know everything that's happening in politics all around the world, not even just India, but all around the world. That's just something that was inbuilt and also my mother is a professor of political science. So growing up also I was kind of exposed to the idea of

just public administration, policies and how the political system works in general. So I think that seed was sown right in the beginning and I just did not know how to explore it or if I really actually even wanted to explore it. it. And I remember in class seventh one of my teachers asked me asked all of us actually what we wanted to do when we grew up and I just said I wanted to be I want to become the Chief Minister of Bihar. And that kind of just stayed with me through school as well and later as well. So I think that you know being in the public service in that area was always there, but probably I did not know how to go about it.

If I had known that if I did have that kind of exposure growing up, I probably wouldn't have gone for a B.Tech degree. The only thing is I was really good at maths and everyone else was doing engineering. So it just seemed like the the most plausible route and that was the only way to success that people usually saw. I think lack of exposure again boils down to just growing up in Bihar that lack of exposure was one of the key reasons why I did not kind of take up a political science degree or you know liberal arts kind of degree earlier on because I feel like maths is something I was still kind of wanted to study. So, yeah, I think she was one right in the beginning and in college I did a lot of theater. So, I was doing a lot of street and I was writing also a lot lot and they were all very you know, social

impact driven kind of street street plays I usually with the social message, right? So, I think probably by where I found my true calling that this is somewhere I want to be and that's how I just kind of switched switched to social impact sector without taking up any engineering job after BTech degree. degree. Got it. Yeah, so I definitely want to peel back the layers around what you did professionally after your degree, but something you said is that I want to double click on is the notion that Biharis are very politically inclined. This is something that I know and understand because I'm Bihari also, but I love that you called that out because I don't think enough people realize that, you know? So, obviously there's a few reasons why Biharis are known and I just feel like this is not one of them and it

should be, right? Because I do think that that You know, driver knows a lot about politics and everyday I'm coming back from office or going to office, he's always discussing and one day I thought he probably knows majorly only about Bihar and that's what he was talking about because we just got a new chief minister. So, he was just talking about So, leading up to the chief minister, he was talking about the options and then when he became the new chief minister, he was talking about the pros pros and why it happened, analyzing it. And then he One day he was talking about Kerala politics, Tamil Nadu politics and I'm like, "Wow, how does all of this happen?" And it was amazing. But, yeah.

Yeah, no. So, so basically I love that you called that out because it would not have occurred to me to do that. And then the second thing you said which is interesting is, yeah, I agree, right? Like in India you first get an engineering degree and then you decide what it is that you have to do, which is again, you and I know and understand this, but it is there is something about people being able to relate to stories like this. I kind of had a similar story. I was not as cool enough as you to actually go do the thing that I really wanted to do, so I kind of stayed in my lane, but as far as my B.Tech uh, story goes, it is exactly that, right?

Like I didn't know what else to do. Math seemed like a decent enough option, so I was like, sure, you know, let's just go get an engineering degree. But yeah, so I'm curious, you said that after your graduation you started to seriously consider the social impact type work and settings. So, did you not end up taking a job in engineering? I guess what did you do in the, I think, 5 years or so between your, um, you know, between finishing your, uh, B.Tech and starting your masters in Chicago?

Right. Uh, so after, uh, I graduated, I worked with the Piramal Foundation. They have, uh, a a social impact fellowship, uh, wherein we work with public schools in different parts of the country and it is a very, uh, you know, on the ground kind of experience where you're, uh, you're also living with the community that you're working with for a short span of time. So, um, so you so I was in the I was in, uh, Mumbai and Thane and, uh, I with the public schools there. So, I kind of lived also in the slum communities for a couple of months. So, that was called like, uh, how you decondition yourself. You go down to that level and you see how things are working. So, you know, it just gives you a perspective on the fact that, uh, when you're working in the schools, you think, oh, the attendance is so low. Why

are the uh, parents not sending their kids? What is wrong? And then when you go and live in you realize that this girl has to kind of also look after her younger siblings because her parents are going off to work. And they are saying that why are his parents not turning up in parent-teacher's meetings. Then you go on to realize that they can't miss a day of work. They will have they will lose not like a our job where you can take leaves. So, they really need earners. So, yeah. All of those things you kind of understand like the kid is late to school because probably there was a long long queue in the public toilet. So, yeah. Those that unconditional conditioning kind of happened during the fellowship for sure. And it was a good wake-up call to kind of understand that uh um everything a lot of things that are happening in the

you know, in the four walls in any in AC rooms probably do not consider every ground reality properly. So, so yeah, it kind of a good balance of data and also a very you know, social kind of how society works that empathy Yeah, I think that is such that at least that feels like such an important part of trying to get your way make your way into this new world because up until that point I'm sure you had an idea right about that this is what this looks like this is what this domain entails.

But unless you actually are in there doing the work which if anything I think in your case you took that like way too literally cuz you were literally you know, there living there. So, that's very interesting. So, how long were you there for? Were you there for the entire 5 years? No, no. I I was there for only 2 years and then I worked with another non-profit in the employability space. So, again I was working with young adults in the slum communities of Mumbai to kind of help them understand what career suits them best and how to go about it.

And it gives you a very It gave me again very great perspective in terms [clears throat] of Kids just want a job, don't know what a career is, don't know the difference between a job and a career. A lot of kids when they actually end up in jobs in the uh they They are the probably they don't have any you know uh examples in their communities as to how like. So, I had seen some instances of you know kids even dropping out of jobs because they could not handle the pressure of being in the office because there are so many others answers that we do not know about that these kids do not know about, right? How do you use a western toilet? I mean, that was the simplest thing that came up and I'm like, "Wow, we never thought of that."

That that kind of hand-holding quite not just career-wise but also just how to be in an office because they have never seen an office before. So, or never heard of like, right? So, yeah, that was also very very eye-opening for me. Then I went on to work in impact consulting. consulting. So, so you know, a lot of people work in consulting and then go towards the social impact route where they are kind of working in in management consulting and then they have like a emotional call that that and then they kind of go into impact consulting. You know, I do not like that switch. A lot of times I feel like people who have not seen the ground closely when they move from management consulting to impact consulting it kind of is very very technical and a lot of things are very qualitative in this in this field is what I've understood. And there

are a lot of things that I cannot explain with logic, but I know it is right. And it is the right way particular scenario you know whatever recommendation that we are giving. So yeah, when I worked in started working in impact consulting, I feel like I had an edge in that sense where in I knew what the ground also looks like and my longest client was the Gates Foundation and the Bihar government where I worked in the health health department for about 2 years where I health secretary very closely and and yeah, I was part of the core team when we were fighting the COVID. So at the peak of COVID when everyone was at home I was literally exposed in the health department every single So yeah, it was a very very strenuous time, but I think the most rewarding time in my life because I could see what I was doing at work was kind of

making an impact was helping people. So so yeah, whenever people kind of dish the government for like you know not underperforming during COVID not doing their best. I I think I'm the biggest advocate at that time because I was inside the government. I know exactly how people were dealing with it and how you know everyone was just putting their best foot forward. No one was prepared for it, right? And like Bihar there was there where there was no digital infrastructure whatsoever. So you know just bringing a building that up from scratch while also kind of dealing with the with the crisis that was at hand.

It was I think they did a tremendous job and and you know I would see how the how the officers or how the doctors were kind of trying to push their limits and do everything in their power to kind of make sure that there was better availability, oxygen availability, medicine availability, and things were reaching the public services were reaching people in the way that they should in a in a timely manner. A lot of people do not have not had great working with the government. But my experience has been great because the health secretary at that time, who is now the chief secretary of Bihar, Mr.

Pratyaya Amrit, was is probably uh one of the best administrators I've ever seen in my life, and probably one of the best administrators to have to ever live in the country or in the Yeah, he's been at the helm of the biggest changes that you've seen in Bihar, electricity, and road, health. He's been at the helm things, and now he's the chief secretary. And again, I'm working with him. But I think even now when I'm when I started working with the Bihar government, my major pull was because he's the health sec- he's the chief secretary, and I knew that work, and it's not just going to be paperwork and files moving around, but things are actually going to work. And it's been just a month, and again, things are moving really quickly at a pace that I also did not imagine that it didn't move, but it's moving very, very quickly, and I'm

really looking forward to working with him again, and you know, just trying to do whatever I can for Bihar while every giving back, but yeah. That's how it is. That That is so interesting, and I just love how well-rounded and holistic your, you know, on-the-ground experience has been. Um and I definitely have questions around the Bihar piece specifically, which we can come back to that in a bit. [clears throat] And it, you know, it will be hard for me to contain that. But the first thing I want to, like, the first direction I want to go into here is you mentioned that for people that switch from you know, like, that are doing management consulting, and they've one day wake up and realize that they want to serve society and then just switch to doing this and you said that sometimes that is detrimental. So, I am curious

for people, you know, just like your average Joes and Janes in India, what are some things that most people can do? They don't need to even be in impact consulting necessarily, right? But just from your experience, all of your years of experience doing this, what are some simple things that people can do that actually make a huge difference difference when it comes to society and we can even just look at the lens that you mentioned, which is around employment or, you know, education and things like that. So, I'm very curious for your thoughts around this. You know, I get this question a lot because a lot of people reach out to me and say that oh, you know, because a lot of most of my friends are engineers and from school and from college, of course, are engineers. And they're doing their typical IT jobs or

or yeah, jobs in the engineering field and they kind of want to know, oh, what can I do from the outside? Is there something I can do? But I feel like that structure particularly in India isn't that well developed. Um I feel like the very basic employee engagement CSR activities that a lot of companies do, Mhm. Mhm. I find them Well, personally, that's my opinion. I I look disagree, but most of the times I find them very one-off events and um um you know, I think for me, that's something that I keep saying even in the when working in with the government, if there is no follow-up, then there is no point of doing any doing doing anything at all. Cuz you go one day, you interact with public school kids, you sing with them, you teach them some drawing or some math or some puzzles or something and then you forget about you click pictures, you

post and you forget. Um but if you kind of of you know throughout a year throughout the year you pick up a couple of kids and then you work with them and you kind of help them grow. That I think is the more impactful than these one-off activities. I know a lot of people are doing that. For example, for example, I know that in Mumbai specifically a lot of these things happen. happen. The volunteering activities are far more structured and have like goal-oriented kind of strategy. For example, the non-profit I also worked with, they have like mentors for these kids who are trying to you know break into careers of their choice. choice. So these mentors kind of handhold them throughout their journey. So So yeah, it's easier for the student also to kind of reach out to one person for for advice. They know who to reach out to.

And for the for the for the employee who is also kind of kind of mentoring, it's also also you know you you're you're actually able to see some growth in Right. Right. So yeah, if that kind of those kind of activities if you can find those kind of uh uh goal-oriented activities that would make more sense, but one-off activities of going and painting a school or you know cleaning a park and stuff like that. I mean but but I wouldn't recommend that.

Yeah, no, I think that makes sense. And I like that you said or you hinted towards there being almost a performative element to those type of things where it's like you're checking a box and you know somebody's misery is your Instagram post. Which you know which and again I get it like there is no malice here like the people are actually trying to help and such but I love that you called out that it's not moving the needle if you're really trying to do something go all in right commit to maybe a month two months like you you know just follow up. So I do think that is helpful almost like a truth bomb if if we can call it that which we love on this show we we are all about truth [snorts] truth bombs around here. So from there um I guess naturally when you were picking out your public policy master so I understand now that

that was something you wanted to take your career to to the next level why the US like I guess why not UK or talk to me about kind of how you shortlisted you know your university and kind of just some of the considerations that if somebody's you know going down that similar path and I'm sure you have conversations like these that people with people that reach out to you but just kind of set the stage for us in terms of the landscape for public policy type courses in masters that you ended up doing. Right. Um so I did not explore a lot in India honestly honestly I mean I knew there were a couple of uh institutes that were offering public policy degree but I just felt that what they would teach in India is something that probably I've already kind of learned on ground Yeah. uh perspective and I wanted

to learn in so I think I was clear about the fact that I want to learn in a bigger city I'm also able to learn from living in that city you know just experiencing that city as well like a live museum of sorts. sorts. So yeah I think that was my main goal. uh Uh and I think the other thing that I was was So, I think uh the landscape is huge. It kind of depends on what you want to uh what you want your graduate graduate degree experience to feel like and what you want you know to kind of learn the kind of courses that you want to take. So, that's something that you'd have to kind of do a lot of research on is what from most people and I did the same. I kind of applied very last moment, honestly. I I started applying in November and deadlines were on 1st December. So, yeah, I kind of rushed into because I wasn't sure if I wanted to go go.

But uh but then I thought what's the harm in applying? I'm going to waste some money. It's fine. Um so, I applied anyway and I did apply into a few universities in the UK as well. well. Um but they were more like backup options, honestly, for me because I kind of knew that I would get into these colleges very easily and I knew that uh by the amount that I would pay would be far less than what I was going to pay in the US. So, they were more like backup options that if I don't get a better better a good university in the US with a good scholarship, scholarship, I can always go to these universities. But UK I was not worth a lot because they weren't kind of very very um I felt the courses were more philosophical, so to say, and more like uh uh uh very, you know, very reading heavy rather than application.

Uh that was my understanding. I could be wrong, but that was my understanding and I want more like application based learning. learning. So that in that sense the US fit in better better and in terms of the universities I applied to in US again I applied to very few universities like three four universities universities and in towards the end I was kind of looking at four which to pick out of the four one was University of Chicago where I went finally. One was and one was Michigan Ann Arbor Ford School of Policy and the other was Indiana Bloomington. So I was weighing pros and cons between these. I had great scholarships in Michigan, Indiana and Chicago. So So that is finally what I was looking at because Columbia was not budging on scholarship and to be quite honest with you I really really wanted to go to Columbia and my

dad would pick up every single like I think we can manage the amount if you want to and uh so so yeah Columbia was out of question at one point. I mean I could have gone but I know a lot of people who've gone on scholarship to Columbia also. I didn't want to take that route and I didn't want to be in that much debt also because I knew I wanted to come back. So so I ended up picking finally because they gave me a great scholarship and also being in the city was one of my priorities. So University of Chicago kind of fit in very well and it had very the business school was amazing so I knew that I could take up a lot of business degrees which I wanted to, and it was uh uh for quant heavy. So, that was again one reason I wanted to look at policy through the quant lens. So, uh so, yeah, I think uh uh it did very well in that sense. And

yeah, that's why I kind of ended up going to University of Chicago, and best decision ever. Yeah, and I know you hinted on this a little bit in terms of it being quant heavy and such, but I'm just so curious in terms of like if you had to distill your entire master's curriculum into maybe like, you know, a couple minutes. I guess can you, you know, just cuz I'm so curious. Um what are kind of like the headlines in terms of things that you learned? So, is it stuff around that if you're given x amount of resources with this outcome in mind, how do you get to that outcome? Right? Or is it is that completely just way off? And I guess yeah, talk to me about like just your What do they teach you out there?

No, sure. The So, the core courses are majorly quant. So, we have the statistics and economics, and we have political and analytical politics. So, analytical politics is not at all political science. It is all about game theory, and I loved that class. Ah, wow. Okay. classes classes Um because you know, we were talking about game theory, and then we were talking about how um you know, stuff like, uh for example, if a bigger country is giving a grant or a loan to a smaller country, then what is the the chance that this smaller country that loan? Um because so, then you have to play it stuff like, oh, they have rare minerals. So, um then if they're doing that, then they have access the bigger country has access to the rare minerals. And that way you're just putting your country at risk. And yeah, just so hypothetical stuff like that.

It's actually not hypothetical, honestly, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that's how you're looking at it, right? So, that was the majorly the core classes. And And then I took up a lot of classes related to governance, open governance, and also entrepreneurship. Because that's also a route I want to kind of explore at some point. Actually, it's at some point is also I want to explore it sooner rather than later. So, working in nonprofits, I kind of realized that I was not a nonprofit person, honestly.

I was more of a social enterprise kind of a person. And if I had to register an impact organization also, I'd never do it as a nonprofit or a charity. So, can you share a little bit more about the differences? I guess what are the differences between those two things? Just cuz I'm not really familiar. So, nonprofit you register as it as a nonprofit or you register it as a society or a charity. And then you have to kind of depend on grants. And you have to fundraise. Got it. Right, you cannot make revenue. You cannot make profit out of whatever services that you're providing.

Whereas in a social enterprise, even when you're doing social impact work, you are kind of doing a service in the way that you can raise money out of it. And you are just putting that money back into the service. Or you're just using that money to pay your job salaries. And you know, just And you know, I'm just kind of making it sustainable. So, I like that rule rule better. So, yeah, that's something that I also kind of studied in during the policy degree. So, yeah, everyone kind of you know, once the core courses are over, everyone's kind of exploring different things. I know that in U Chicago specifically finance was a big thing that people were looking at. So, money and banking and regulate of a lot of people were learning. Then uh data analytics was again a very very famous famous kind of specialization that a lot of

people were doing. So, I did a couple of classes in data analytics also, but I kind of regretted it. I thought that you know, the kind of things that I'm learning, I could have probably learned on my own and it would have been better if I had taken a more application-based class. So, yeah, the classes that I took in the business school were amazing. And I kind of in hindsight probably think that I should have done a dual degree MBP MBP plus MBA or done a an MBA degree with like specialization in the social impact space or something because I thought the policy degree a little bit uh um how do I say it? More academic. And uh Mhm. I see. a younger crowd and so the cohort before me, the age I think the average age was towards late 20s, but my cohort it was towards early 20s. 20s. And I could see why. So, so yeah, I realized

I'm sorry, and why was it? Sorry, maybe you mentioned that already, but yeah, why did the age become younger? I think it's also their intake that kind of probably changed and also I feel like the degree was also kind of you know, structured in a way that it was as I mentioned a little more academic rather than and rather than for people who had come with a lot of work experience like me so so yeah I think the business school classes were more suited in that sense you know the kind of of you know the kind of transaction in terms of classes I think it was better for me personally the business school classes were better suited because it was all about and it was all about you know building structures and frameworks and it was less about you know while I love numbers but it was number being the only thing is also not

what I would kind of especially for a course like public policy right like that has to be the the you know background and never the foreground I guess kind I think my favorite class was so so a former deputy mayor of Chicago Professor Sameer Makar teaches at at the business school and also at the public policy school so I took two of his classes one was on just plain entrepreneurship which I completely completely loved that class we were just talking about cases and seeing how startups work and how startups fail so yeah that was fun and the other class that I took with him probably my favorite class was urban development it was kind of a playbook class so how cities just you know different different things that you do in a city to kind of just make sure that the city is is not just livable but also a thriving city a city that is

aspirational for people right so I always you know pitched Chicago with Patna and I would think oh okay Patna with Chicago you know uh infamous for uh for all the famous for all the wrong reasons, right? Uh Uh still they were they they've been able to kind of attract the right kind of talent, uh the right kind of companies. They've been able to attract Lollapalooza. So, this guy was this professor of mine was the person who had kind of pitched for Lollapalooza, and he got in Lollapalooza to Chicago. I came Uh but but yeah, you know, just seeing that deck of how he presented and what he did and how he got Lollapalooza and how it kind of impacted Chicago. That was amazing. And um you know, that's exactly the kind of work I'm doing right now.

Exactly what I studied in his class is exactly what I'm doing right now. So, it's just uh and again, two of my most favorite people in terms of you know, in the who have interacted with academically and professionally, um Professor Miker and the current Chief Secretary, Mr. Prateep Amrit. Again, very similar people, you know, very enterprising people. Both have Both have been in the public sector, and both have you know, that um as Professor Miker always said, and I love that quote is uh you know, looking at public policy with a startup lens. So, how you can everything with a startup lens.

Yep. That's that. And you have you know, you're in a mission mode and you're like racing against time. And these are all words that I'm picking up from both of these people, and both of these people are so similar. At one point, I want them to meet also, and I'm like, "Oh, wow." wow." That's my the man moment of like, "Oh, wow." Yeah. Yeah, the pointing meme. Yeah. Um and then, is the MPP degree STEM or is that a non-STEM degree? That's STEM. Interesting. Interesting. Not all are STEM, but uh Chicago Berkeley, I think that's it. Got it. So, I mean, I think naturally, right? The question is begging to be asked around your just like your Swades moment, So, you mentioned earlier that you had always wanted to go back. Can I ask why? Like, why not get some experience as well in the US given it's STEM? You have your 3 years of

OPT that you could have done. So, why not do that? Why the need to go back immediately? So, yeah. Honestly, I did want to do it also. I'm not going to lie, that was something that was in my mind that I want to kind of maybe get an international experience also. The kind of jobs that I wanted were not open to sponsoring and I did not want to do, you know, just something for the sake of, you know, living in the US and, you know, experiencing it. So, and also I have had a very long working working I have had a lot of, you know, years of work experience. So, I do not want to do grant work anymore and and my aim was to work in in philanthropic organizations because I feel like philanthropic organizations have a lot of power in the terms of they hold so much money that, you know, if used in the right way could

do a lot of good for the society on the whole and um So, I think I wanted to work with one of the bigger philanthropic organizations and and everywhere I reached out to was the same answer that they're not sponsoring. Some of them did earlier but with all the new chaos and uncertainty, uncertainty, no one's going to, you know, take So, yeah, I think that was the major reason. If I had probably, you know, landed a job in one of the philanthropic organizations, I would have considered that for a couple of years but I didn't have I never saw myself living there for in the long term. term. I just felt that that I wanted to come back. No, that makes total sense and then can you maybe you speak to in terms of how your cohort ended up doing? So, do people generally in at least in situations like this where with everything that's going on

around the visa stuff in terms of the uncertainty. So, do people generally just go pivot away from, you know, public policy type work and just do whatever? Or do some people get lucky kind of Can you share maybe just with your cohort how things ended up? So, So, I'll speak to you about the international student experience. Perfect. That's what I was Yeah, yeah. That's exactly that. I think the other part makes sense because for them it's much much easier. For international students, I would say only a few got lucky in terms of the kind of job that they were looking for and they ended up getting.

And for most of the people, they just made do with whatever they got. For a lot of people, they did they took up one year kind of a fellowship kind of thing. Which kind of like a couple of months, like months, two, three months. So, everyone out in the market looking again. So, So, yeah, I think most people want to stay in the US. But a lot of people come back also. So, I think it depends on what your priorities are. Makes sense. If philanthropic organizations were sponsoring, I would have stayed back for a couple of years myself. But But But yeah, I think most people want to stay back is what my sense is. Not everyone will come back to India. And also Also, the fact is a lot of people have taken up loans to go to the US also. I did not have a loan, so very very you know, very keen on about staying in

the US for that reason because I back stuff. And because a lot of people didn't get very good scholarships were paying a lot a hefty amount for a policy degree which I would suggest no. If you're listening to this, please not pay a lot of amount for your policy degree. Try to get scholarship. Don't get a scholarship. I would suggest do like an MPPMBA combined degree if you're spending that much money might as well do an MBA as well because that will give you a return on investment. Uh but do not pay a lot of money for a policy degree is what uh if you have a lot of money go ahead do it but uh You have to take a um and go to a policy degree, please don't. don't. Take a little bit of Yeah, but don't take like a 50 lakh loan and go to go to a policy degree, please. 10-20 is fine, I I would say. Love it. Yeah, I'm going to put that

part in the trailer cuz I feel like that is something everybody needs to know. Just the way you said it, it was clear to me that that is the head-headline here. Um and and then but then so going forward, obviously you then moved back to India. Talk to me about how that was, right? So you mentioned earlier kind of contrasting Chicago and Patna. Funnily enough, I have been to both places so I have my thoughts on that but I'm curious in terms of what it was like for you to be back. I know it's only been a month or and and such but but maybe can you share the biggest things that surprised you about coming back that you were not really expecting to surprise you. It they can be good or bad. So I'm really not fishing for anything here. Yeah, yeah, but I'm just looking for general you know, surprises in any way or form. Yeah, I mean

I wouldn't say I was surprised because I was mentally prepared for it and it's home and I've also worked in the city I worked in the same government, same people, same team before. So work wise also it wasn't that um you know know surprising or day one how it's going to be like because I entered office and everyone was like oh welcome back welcome back. Oh nice okay. That was completely fine because the health secretary is now the chief secretary and his core team is still the same. So it's exactly the same people.

And such great great people that I worked with. So so that way it wasn't a surprise per se. But But but you know I've always contrasted Chicago and Patna in the sense that I actually ended up writing a stand up set for it also. And I've been meaning to try it. I tried it once in Chicago. But but it was a very you know close crowd and it was the way That's awesome. That's so cool. Can we hear one one of the bits or something here? I think that's one another time but yeah. Okay. I appreciate that. As I mentioned both are unfamous and in famous and you know how both have kind of struggled to change their image and attract people. So also you know just how How it's so diverse also. I like a very neighborhood kind of city both of the cities. So like if you know that someone lives in that neighborhood you know exactly

what the person's house is going to be like how the person's house is like. You know the profession of their parents if you know where they're living. To the extent you know the cast of that person if they're living in Patna. So I mean that's that's how cities are both cities are kind of constructed. So that's way that's why I always keep contrasting both the cities. But yeah I think in terms of surprises, I feel like um for me, it was um I think it kind of came in a platter, this role particularly. Um I would have probably probably uh still kind of probably you know, not come back to Patna, but go back to my previous job and move to say Bangalore or Mumbai where I was living initially. So, that was my first thought. But, when I saw this role come up uh and I saw the kind of work that they wanted to do on

investment, tourism, organization. And it kind of just hit the right note for me because tourism is something that I've been so so vocal about in general that Bihar can do so much around tourism. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Why it's such so untapped and investment again. I mean, we've just as I mentioned with Chicago and then when I was talking about the professor, how he taught us about cities that you don't make it a livable city, you make it a thriving city, a city that is aspirational.

So, I feel like we've made Patna into a livable city, but to make it an aspirational city, a city where people don't move out, people can stay back or people can come back or newer people can come work here. Um so, all of that is going to happen only and only when you get investment. I'm all about capitalism here. All about capitalism 100%. Because I feel like if you do not have capital investment um uh uh then the needle is never going to move.

Social justice is right. I'm not saying that you should move away from social justice, but I'm saying that um okay, you've given them such particular rights and you've given them a lot of you know, subsidies, but um if they do not have jobs, if they do not have have you know an idea of what life could look like 10 years from now for their child who's going to school, you have filled the public schools, but you have not given them a route to this could how your life could turn out to be.

Everyone's only kind of preparing for exams. I mean, Patna, I think everyone is only preparing for exams. I don't know what exams how many exams exist. I have no clue, but everyone is preparing for exams. And I just whenever I look at these big boards of exam coachings and all that, it gives me nightmares. It literally gives me nightmares that how is everyone because I've seen very closely a couple of people, you know, prepare for civil services and all also. And you know, it ruins your life and ruins the life of people around you also. So, I mean, we definitely need corporate sector in Bihar and I get it. It's chicken and egg problem. Everyone keeps telling me that uh uh that uh there is no talent. Why will corporates come here? And then I'm always like, "Oh, corporates are not not here, hence no talent." So, yeah. Uh I

must take that leap of faith and you know, we we that's what we're like kind of looking at. We get one big anchor investor and you know, that ecosystem will build around it. Um so, kind of work that I want I was craving to do and it just came on a platter and I couldn't say no. And uh my parents were also like, it Like go and pick up the boy, he ain't going to come. I I mean, I you should be happy I'm staying with you and Yeah. Yeah. Um but yeah, I think um uh it's they just see that how passionate I am about this work and um I think for me monetary benefit was never the question, but yeah, also I do not not sell myself. I know what my worth is and what the market can pay me. So, that's one big myth that I want to break that um um I do not like the way kind of people sometimes sometimes in a very derogatory manner. Oh, you

social worker here. Mhm. Mhm. What she does social work as if I'm doing something for free. I'm not doing it for free. Yeah. Yeah. And I will never Um if I I I will do anything for free, it's for myself. I will not do it for someone else for free. Um as much as we are in Patna and I want to help it in whatever way possible, I will not do it for free for sure. And um Uh and yeah, I mean I will not say that it uh the pay is as hefty as uh say engineering jobs how much they're paying, but um it's definitely not bad.

It's pretty good. And if you know the right ways uh to you know navigate uh the right kind of uh organizations, organizations, um you can you know, end up in good paying jobs as well. well. Wow, like you've left me with so much to think about here. I I think one of the themes that you've just mentioned throughout our conversation here today is is exactly around this, right? Like if you're doing good work, if you're helping society, it should not be just expected that this is for free or you know, like you're doing some favor to the society. Because it is a lot of work. You're doing the same amount of effort if not more than the engineering that makes the engineering person that makes whatever money they make. So, if your effort and outcome are not different, then why should your pay be different? And I love

that you said that because people almost settle for slash assume that this is it, right? Like the moment you go into social work, like kiss your career goodbye in terms of being like rich or whatever. And I love that you said that it shouldn't be like that because I think the biggest thing it does is it just dissuades people from getting into this field. Because why would anybody get here if they're just going to settle up for, you know, just a life of drudgery and pain for for, you know, the foreseeable future. So, that's really really cool.

Um and honestly, I might have to just bring you back just for to focus on the Bihar specific piece because this is something that I'm also extremely passionate about. Again, I'm a Bihari. I will always be. It is always home and I, you know, Did you grow up in Bihar? No, no. So, my parents or like my grandfather migrated to Kolkata um when in like the '70s. Yeah, but we went back. So, we we have like ancestral property there. So, we pretty much went back every year. And you know, we we still speak Bhojpuri at home. It is like a core part of who I am. Yeah. Exactly. So, I guess yeah. yeah. my mother tongue also, which is really really sad. I want to learn it someday, but maybe we'll see. Yeah, yeah. So, I guess what I was getting at with all of this was yeah, we can, you know, plan around that because I have a lot to say and hear about how

you are just kind of making Bihar cool again or great again. But the last question here that I want to ask you, Shreya, is for people that are just you know, doomers that are like let even like let's just forget India for a while. Like that people that say, you know, that Bihar is just cooked. There is no way back. We are just never ever going to be anything good again. If you had if you could say something to these people given that you are actually there doing the work to make it better, unlike any of these other people, myself included, right? What would your message be to these people in terms of the the change that you're seeing, you're affecting, that you see happening in the near future here? So, So, I kind of agree with them, very honestly. Um I will not lie. Most of the days I say the exact same thing that uh Bihar

nothing's ever going to change. What am I doing? Why am I here? So, yeah, every single day this, but then all of a sudden something happens and then I realize, oh, okay, something can happen and uh there's still hope. Uh Uh I really feel the next 2 years for Bihar are very, very critical. For example, for the only reason being um um there has never been such alignment between the center and the state. Um this um you know, vision and also uh political party ever before. So, [snorts] feel like the center's focus has also kind of moved to Bihar a little in the sense that they are also looking at it as uh uh as a project of like, okay, next 2 years are very critical. We need to to kind of do some uh do something very quickly. Um so, personally I believe that if the next 2 years Bihar is able to do leapfrog in a few sectors, say uh

investment, uh tourism, and um also just Infrastructure, probably, right? Infrastructure is far better than what it used to be when I was a kid, for sure. Far Oh, 100%. Yep. It don't anymore. Uh I mean, I have to keep up. When I'm driving also I have to keep asking where where do I go next? Where do I go? Do I take this right? Do I take the road? So, I'm very scared of of driving because of that reason. So, So, So, yeah. I mean, infrastructure still has gotten much better but still a long way to go. So, and also you know, you will not believe the actually will believe everyone will believe Bihar has never focused on industries like That has never been the only at all like you know, the government owned land for industrial industrial investment is so little so little as compared to other states that other comparable states rather that it

is very very sad at times. So, so I feel like we will get a lot of investment in the next 2 years. It's going to help a lot but yeah, those investments had to get grounded. They can't just be on paper MOUs. They have to actually get grounded so you know, Yeah, so That's what I feel like if you're able to do that in the next 2 years, there's hope. Otherwise even I kind of align with everyone else in the fact that probably probably if you're because we are way behind the other states. I cannot tell you I mean, you everyone else is looking at it very superficially but I'm seeing it from the inside and I realize that we are are behind say say comparable states like Odisha or or Uttar Pradesh. We are way way way behind them. most of the things and yeah, so So, if there I feel like there's

political will for the first time in a very long time. And if if if the executive body of the officers are able to kind of you know, tap onto that in the next 2 years, something big could happen. But, if not, then I'm also kind of a little bit skeptical of uh Uh-huh. in Bihar. Uh I mean, uh you just look at the social fabric also of the city. There's literally nothing to do uh There are no community events. There's nothing really happening. So, that's something that I want to work on personally. I've been talking to a lot of people. We've been brainstorming about, you know, uh because I've lived in bigger cities in Mumbai and in Chicago where uh there are so many activities happening every day that you have to kind of pick and choose which one to go to. And um Also, I want to kind of build on that, do something around that,

because I've always the um you know, that social bee who has kind of attracted everyone around her and, you know, things. So, I feel like that my hosting energy is so high that these this is a very natural thing for me to do in terms of and that's what I keep telling people that health, education, uh there are so many people already working in that area. And I know they are experts in what they're doing. Um while this is also a very important part of the city, um you know, just creating that sense of belongingness through um you know, shared uh stories, uh some shared activities, activities, Yeah. Very very like one activity that we had brainstormed and we are thinking of doing it as soon as the mango season starts is, you know, asking everyone to get We'll do like a closed invite-only kind of an event. I've

um requested my parents to lend me their house for a few months to, you know, try things and, Wow, that's so cool. That is, yeah, such a great idea. Yeah, I mean, truly, like I just feel Yeah. Mhm. That works. But, yeah, Exactly. Exactly. in their homes because everyone's mangoes are so different. And then we do the tres leches or something or like a cheesecake or something together with mangoes that we get. So, yeah. Those are the activities that I'm looking at kind of doing and you know, helping people kind of just like Patna more. The people who are already But, at least we are able to retain some people that you're you're you're Yeah, I mean, well, I just feel so inspired by everything that you have not only been doing but have done in the past. I feel like Yeah, I I don't know. It's just that's just kind of the you know, overarching

emotion I feel and pretty much I'm sure anybody listening would be feeling the same that And and you know, a certain quote comes to mind and I'm going to butcher it. So, I apologize in advance, but it's something to the effect of you cannot light up the entire world all the time, but you can light up your corner of the world. Mhm. Mhm. And I feel like hearing your story it feels like everywhere you've been, everywhere that life has taken you, you've just continued to do that. And I think that is just such an admirable thing that you have been able to do because it's so easy to despair, you know, and like you even said, they're right. Like these people that do doomerism around this type of stuff, they have a point. But, then you also said that yes, but stuff can change, right? Like you're still optimistic, you're still out there.

Great. Yeah, and I will always go yes, and and yes, but Yep. Yep. Exactly. So, yeah, truly, you know, thank you so much here for taking the time and I we will have to run it back for a Bihar focused session at sometime in the future. But, this has been so awesome, Shreya. Thank you so, so much. Um I truly, truly appreciate you taking the time. Thank you. Thank you, Raman, for having me.