How To Get A Master's In Germany For $0 in 2026 & MUST-KNOW Hiring Rules - w/ Shriya

While everyone you know is signing up for $60,000 in US grad school debt, you only have to pay for your living expenses, so it makes a lot of sense. My guest today, Shreya, after her CS degree from India, got her masters in human-computer interaction from Germany for a grand total of zero pounds / zero dollars of tuition. Uh HCI is a field where you can go into whatever because it's a combination of different fields. Wow, I had actually no idea that you have so many directions to go into, but but not all is rosy. There is a catch.

but not all is rosy. There is a catch. There is one thing that might get you blocked from getting hired in Germany even with the right degree. When they explicitly mention the German level, I would say then it's a foolish endeavor to apply. We cover how the German system actually works, the jobs a degree in HCI opens up for you, and how to figure out if it is the right degree for you. If you've been stressed Googling masters abroad at 2:00 a.m., watch this until the end. Shreya, welcome. I'm good. How are you? Doing well. Um want to take it right back to the start. You know, so going back to Shreya's life, she has graduated with a degree in computer science. Talk me through why HCI and why Germany.

me through why HCI and why Germany. So, that's uh going to be uh so we'll have to go back into why I took computer science first. Perfect. Perfect. Taking computer science was the most practical option for me because I felt like I could do a lot with computer science. It had uh practically it made a lot of sense, but also because I really enjoyed science the most out of all the subjects in my school, and I didn't like programming that much, but I still took computer science because I thought, "Okay, I'll make it make sense later on."

make it make sense later on." Um and halfway through my bachelor's, I realized that um um I didn't know about human-computer interaction at all. But halfway through I um and back then we didn't hear a lot of buzz about UX either. So, I only knew about graphic designing and I knew I didn't want to do graphic designing full-time, although I did enjoy it as a hobby. Mhm. So, but I was always into art and craft and I during throughout my school I was doing a lot of uh In fact, I spent more time at other schools for competitions than than at my own school. So, uh but I mean it was a regular story. I would go to school and my teacher would

would go to school and my teacher would say that Shreya, today you're going to this so-and-so school and uh as if I my opinion never made any difference. So, yeah, I I would be going home in a school bus even though I took an auto usually. So, So, yeah, that was my uh that was my daily life. And um I but I didn't want to do art after like pure art because I sort of have the had the self-awareness that I'm not I wouldn't be the best at an uh at as an artist. But so, uh so I kind of wanted to do something where I had the potential to be better at. I

had the potential to be better at. I could be uh I could improve my craft and improve my skills there. But with art I felt that if I started it as um as as my job, then it would take all the fun out of it. So, that was one of the reasons why I didn't do any um I didn't do my bachelor's in art or design or something. Yeah. Yeah. But later on I thought that UX made sense, but still I uh I was holding back uh from doing UX because I felt it would be such a shame that uh after doing an engineering degree I was going to do UX. So, that held me back,

going to do UX. So, that held me back, but when I discovered HCI it was like everything that I really enjoyed, art, design, psychology, engineering, engineering, all of it combined into one. And it felt much closer to how I naturally think about technology because I think of it of technology from a very basic person's perspective. I break it down so that I can understand it and I feel like this is what UX is also all about. And when I say yeah, HCI HCI is you can think of computer science as a subset of human computer interaction because computer science is born out of humans and computers interacting. interacting. In a way, UX is also a subset of HCI and

In a way, UX is also a subset of HCI and when I realized how just how vast it is, I felt like this is exactly what I want to do and I then worked through the rest of my bachelor's with a single-minded focus of doing a master's later on in HCI. And yes, Germany then naturally came because of personal reasons as well because in as a family I I we are we have two sisters. I have an elder sister and she moved to Germany a year earlier than me also for her master's.

than me also for her master's. And funny story that she was doing her bachelor's in the same college as me. And And we kind of we are we are only a year and a half apart, so it's kind of hard to imagine life with without her. So, I thought that okay, let's let's do do my engineering in the same university. university. And but of course in Germany we are in we were in two different universities and in two different towns. So, but yeah, and um so she also guided me a lot and um uh uh during her time I also looked at different options for her.

different options for her. You know, helping her out we looked at Canada Canada maybe even US but US was never an option for us because it was too far away from India. So Right. It felt like it would take a lot of time just to change flights. So True. True. So we like we like Germany because you have a direct direct flight from Germany to India. So that was um So yeah, in case of an emergency it's easier to come back home.

And it was really affordable because all the public schools here are free. So So So it made a lot of sense to do something in Europe. There is no tuition fee at at public universities and you only have to pay for your living expenses. expenses. Um so I get I thought it was it made a lot of sense to uh So we applied at different she applied at a lot of universities in Germany got accepted into one. And during my time I started also applying to to German universities and fortunately got accepted and then choose chose one of my best options. So So The the town where I'm where I took my university it's in the center of Germany. So it's really close to to all the cities and also to where my where my

the cities and also to where my where my sister is staying at Berlin. So So it makes a lot of sense. That's awesome. Yeah, I love how well that worked out for both of you right? It's really like you guys engineered your path to Germany like with every step baked in without you know relying on luck or chance or anything like that. So, I love that and then a few other things that you said really jumped out to me. I love that you said that it was just a practical thing to do with when you said up when you're talking about computer science. I can definitely relate to that and I'm sure a bunch of our listeners who are just like 90s kids in India. It it does ring true for them, right?

It it does ring true for them, right? Where you just do this first and then you figure out the rest after. It's just like a default almost when it comes to our situation. However, I did like that you said that even around with a couple years left, you had already found this direction. And I love what you shared about HCI being the umbrella on top of CS because as per my understanding, which is, you know, as an outsider, right? Cuz I don't know the next thing about HCI, I always thought it must be like a subset.

thought it must be like a subset. But the way you phrased it made a lot of sense where, yeah, even when I interact with my Apple Watch, that's probably still HCI, even though that's not necessarily CS. So, I am curious, can you walk us through the curriculum itself of maybe, you know, of course, your course specifically, but just generally what's taught in maybe we can even stick to the case of Germany cuz that's where you got your experience from. But I know when you were researching, you would have probably looked at maybe other European schools. So, if there's any difference, but I guess, yeah, roughly how long are the courses, what do they teach, and what were maybe some of your favorite things that you learned during your course in Germany. Okay.

Okay. So, I would start out by saying that HCI is a terminology that really resurfaced in the last 10 years. But HCI as a field, it has existed for since the early age of ages of computing, so since 1940s. 1940s. But if you start thinking of about ergonomics and the field of ergonomics of designing things product design itself it has existed for as long as we exist or as long as human beings started thinking of of products as a thing to sell or as a things for other people to use. Or even while making their sticks and such, right? Like, can you hold this stick while I bash a cave or something. So, yeah, you're right. Ergonomics goes way back. Yep. Yep. So, it goes really way back,

So, it goes really way back, but so, why I said that is because in different countries HCI is called by different names. But, the term HCI is really used a lot more commonly in US, Canada, and I would say in Germany. In Germany, if you translate it in German language, they would call it Medieninformatik. So, that's their way their way of saying human-computer interaction. But, here if in the in the German academia, if you say the term HCI, they already know about it. Right. Right. But, in Singapore, for example, they also also they are they also do a lot of development in HCI. But, they call it ergonomics or human human and human's and AI interaction or something. Mhm. It's called by different names, but many countries are doing developments in HCI. Having said that, when you're doing your research into schools and where you want to do

into schools and where you want to do your pursue your masters, you have to keep that in mind while you're while you're searching for your major because sometimes it doesn't come up. All right. You end You end up looking for HCI and you say, "Hey, no one's offering it in this country. Why is that?" Right. Right. Right. So, you have to make sure that you do that. And also within Germany, sometimes you have to look for media informatics in the local language in order to find and have a complete overview of all the available options.

overview of all the available options. And most universities, they they start in summers and they start in winters. Summer intake and winter intake. But many start in winter. And I wanted to do my summer and wanted to take admission in summer intake because I didn't want to waste half a year just I mean I was doing short stint at a at a job, but I didn't want to waste any more time and just Of course. get into masters and start up because I started thinking of like if this will take 2 years. So Mhm. Mhm. So, the sooner I start, the earlier I can finish. That sort of thing. Mhm. But yes. So, I would say start by in in HCI courses they you have a lot of freedom because

you have a lot of freedom because in comparison to other media media courses, courses, for example, computer engineering, digital engineering. In many places they are In my university in particular, they call it digital engineering. And you have another course called computer science for digital media all in the faculty of media and my course, HCI. HCI. And in comparison to the other two courses, my course has a lot more freedom because you can choose your choose choose which course you want to take for for your credits because there are like four blocks. You have to take a one course from visualization, so it can be either the visualization course where you learn JavaScript and Python to perform the visualization graphs and build graphs. So, that sort of thing. Got it. You do a scientific visualizations and uh an x-ray

uh an x-ray computation so that you can build x-ray images. images. So that's uh you can take either that or VR. So we have the choice. Uh VR is where you get you can you you can rent devices from the university, the VR gear, and then go into the lab and build VR games and VR applications. So I chose visualization because I was not very interested in VR exactly. I am interested in AR. But [gasps] Got it. But not not very interested into VR because I feel that's more uh uh there you have lesser ability to control to dive into the design without going into the technical aspect of it.

into the technical aspect of it. Even in VR designers need to know the coding part. So Right. Right. I felt like I don't want to be a jack of all all trades. So Mhm. I felt like I would only like to learn AR because I can apply it in my field very freely. But you can you can also apply VR into HCI because because many HCI students take VR. And they think of the user experience in VR applications because uh for example, so in many car companies, especially here in Germany, you have Mercedes and uh different kind of car companies auto in the automotive industry, they build VR applications to test cars. To test the driving experience. experience. So there you can apply user experience

So there you can apply user experience and the HCI mind to to in a VR way. And for those kind of openings, they also ask you if they if you have coding experience in in their code base or something. Got it. So you have Mhm. So, you So, you had said that in your field you were you would have been able to apply AR. So, can you talk through us in terms of what you mean when you say your field? I guess what was your field? So, uh I guess my specialization is a combination of what I have managed to combine. combine. And um I can I can't talk specifically about my previous projects, but currently I would say I delve more into human and AI interaction. So, Got it. So, here you have a lot of potential to have AR.

have AR. Um you can even do it in in VR, but I I have always felt this that if you delve into VR, then that can be your only specialization and then everything else sort of goes away. But, Is that cuz you're limited because of the hardware? Is that part of the reasoning at least? Would you say? I guess I I think I think yeah, you're right. The hardware makes makes you very limited. And uh and for VR it I think the hard skills really matter a lot. You need to you really matter a lot. You need to apply yourself in the programming and you have also have to think of the designing. So, 3D design and uh programming, I think that those two skills are really important. And I and I feel like I can uh I'd rather do I'd rather work in

uh I'd rather do I'd rather work in human and AI interaction than go into uh this is more important for me because for me to think of when I think of new projects, I think of how I can work how can I apply human and AI interaction here rather than uh and AR is just an addition, a means to a goal. But, for VR VR would be the main thing and Correct. VR would be the main uh Uh, how do I say it? The main uh uh The showstopper if you will, right? Like Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so actually from there Yeah, so sorry to interrupt, but I guess where I'm going next here is when you say AI human interaction with the context of AR

context of AR I'm actually having kind of having trouble trouble visualizing what that would look like tangibly. So, do you have an example that would help us understand how you combine those three things? Maybe with something that you've built or worked on or just have seen. So, maybe I can talk about something that I did recently. It's uh Uh, my one of my independent projects last year was um was a comic survey lab a project which I somehow got funding for. Oh, cool. Here I was developing a method methodology that that I call comicification. So, inspired by gamification, but it's a little different because we delve deeper into comic pedagogy and how uh you use because comic is a type of communication that you can apply to various various things. For example, booklets, manuals, manuals, uh and I guess stories.

uh and I guess stories. So, stories mostly and people you have seen people applying comics to different story different kinds of stories for children mostly. But, comics can be used in many different ways and they are much more than the panels uh uh because they have spaces between the panels to redirect your attention. Uh, how you're going to read things. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I was inspired by the readability aspect of comics and I thought that what if I applied it to to the quantitative data tools that researchers use. Uh, I had in mind surveys. Because Because I had seen people at at my university who who who were doing their projects and they were asking people to fill out surveys, but nobody was doing it unless they were getting compensated. Yeah. Yeah. thought that it's it's a kind of tough gathering uh data that's not biased

gathering uh data that's not biased because you now have people that are not interested in your research, but only in the benefits or the Amazon gift card or whatever. So uh Uh then I guess in the end you have people who are biased uh in some way and negatively I would say they are not neutral because uh uh because yeah they they don't have a completely free mind uh while coming into the research. And I felt that what if we could motivate them to complete the research on their own without having to provide them any external means of uh Uh compensation or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And comics made sense because uh because you can apply comics um to surveys I thought. So um I organized workshops where I recruited uh comic artists and people who had survey questionnaires which they were going to

questionnaires which they were going to release or had released recently, but wanted more people to uh complete the their surveys. And I paired one comic artist with one um uh with a survey owner. person. Yeah, yeah. And uh I had them collaborate together and redesign their comic uh their survey into a comic-ified version of it. So just so I make sure I'm understanding this right. The idea was that I have a survey, you are a comic artist, we become a team, and then you make this front-facing {slash} uh you know, like public facing maybe website or something that allows me to or allows the user to input the responses to the survey, but in the form of panels in a comic. Is that right?

of panels in a comic. Is that right? We did it completely because these are just workshops, so we did it completely on paper. Oh, okay. Even even better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. Because they because the artists were more familiar with paper. Some of them were not proper artists, but hobbyists. So Mhm. Yeah. So, yeah, but the idea was that we would re-release the surveys and compare which one was performing better. Mhm. And then we would have some sort of data to see okay, this survey is performing better than the this comic-a-fied survey is performing better than the traditional version.

better than the traditional version. Because surveys are also really, really old research research tools that have never been modified because no one ever thought of changing surveys. So So Yeah, it's true. I don't think I've ever thought about this until just now. So Yeah, that's I this is what HCI people do. Mhm. They think of everything and they think how can we use computer and what are the the hindrances of humans and computer interacting.

of humans and computer interacting. Um but yes, as I was saying how can I incorporate AI into it, right? Yeah. So the idea in this project is that now that we have comic-a-fied version of surveys we would we would create a a website where people can create comic-a-fied comic-a-fied comic-a-fied surveys using AI where the AI would sort of assist them in uh in deciding which aspects would need comic-a-fication and where they can apply it and they can input their responses instead of with with typing or with touch. Because this is an interaction type this is a type of interaction you know with your with your hand with your touch or with your uh So instead of that a newer way could be just voice input. Mhm.

So So different modalities and different kinds of interaction uh with with AI. So AI would act as enabler of people doing the comic application. So that's just one way. Is this something that you've built already or is this something that's under the works I guess? Can you share anything about what this has been like and if you have any examples in terms of you know this was implemented or somebody used it to do something something or is it still under work in progress at this point? It is a work in progress but we have presented our findings to mentioned computer computer which is the biggest conference here in Germany in HCI. Mensch is Mensch und Computer so and Computer so their biggest HCI conference. So

So So yeah I we went there and presented it as a work in progress. So in the work in progress category and the idea is that in this year's HCI conference we would at least submit a short paper with the complete application because I am currently building the application prototype but I also have my thesis. So that's been sort of on the backburner now. Because the thesis takes priority.

now. Because the thesis takes priority. Right. So actually help me unpack that. So how long is your degree and is it common for most HCI masters out of Germany to be thesis style or is there an option for non-thesis as well? Actually that good thing that you asked. My degree is a thesis type degree of masters, but you can also do a business or industrial degree where you would have to do an internship in one semester. And for us doing an internship is not a requirement, but of course you need to do it because otherwise it would be tough to find a job later when you are already graduated. So Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so in but in even in industrial degrees you still need to do a thesis. Yeah, because I guess that's the European style of education.

European style of education. So and when you say thesis, that's different from a PhD, right? That's not the same thing that you're talking about or is it related? No, no. But but for many their masters thesis end up being their PhD proposal. Okay. Okay. So they end up applying for PhD with with their masters thesis. Got it. I see. And then you mentioned earlier that when you were first sharing about the gamification project, you said that you were you managed to get a grant for that. So that sounded intense and not like something that everybody gets.

not like something that everybody gets. So can you share more about how grants work, how you were able to get it and what it means for your career slash experience in general? So I I could say it's a really good thing because you have a lot of funding opportunities in Europe. There is the EU so that they also provide commissions and actually this year in June they are going to do a NEV festival so New European Bauhaus Festival um in Brussels and I'm going to go there with a comic application stall. So Oh, cool. Awesome. Uh so yeah, I'm going to present it present my findings there. Hopefully by then I would have something to do like something to show. But the plan is all set and we are going

But the plan is all set and we are going to speak with the team. But the thing is that there are many funding opportunities opportunities through the government agencies and through private agencies and you can uh you can know about them through your uh school through your university initiatives and through the through the DAAD website. So DAAD is like the German website where you where you can find out all about uh the ongoing scholarships or funding programs for your annual year. And And it's always a good thing to apply and the the funding that I received was uh first was through Studentenwerk Thuringens uh Kultur fond. Uh which is interesting. Studentenwerk is the uh if you could say the countrywide uh dormitory or residence uh holdings. So they provide residences for students Mhm.

Mhm. throughout the country and every every state in Germany has their own uh uh since I live in Thuringia, so the Thuringian uh Studentenwerk uh they have a Kulturfond. So for doing things related to culture uh propagating cultural uh integrations, collaborations, they provide funding. And since I was recruiting artists from all over the world because the interesting thing about my town my of Weimar is that it's a student it's international student uh town. You have more international students than actual natives. So So people speak all different kinds of languages and you have if I'm not wrong around 49 people from 49 different countries.

So, that's kind of a lot and you get a lot of variety when you're looking for participants or recruiting people to come into you know, try out your projects. So, Mhm. Yeah. So, yeah there is that but but Sorry. I would just say this. I thought it would be fun to have a funding but it it wasn't because you have to Why is that? Right. Right. Because now you're responsible for deliverables and all of that. Yeah and it's kind of tough managing all of that documentation and keeping track of all the receipts together and at the end end you also have to make sure before buying anything whether or not you would be refunded reimbursed for it because many times they can say that right right this is not reimbursable. So, yeah. Mhm. Interesting. And they don't give you like a guide or

And they don't give you like a guide or somebody like that you know, like a helper person that reach out to this person for any disputes like you just have to figure out everything yourself is what you're saying. They do have a contact person but they wouldn't be reachable immediately. They have a email like you can contact them through email. So, it takes a long time and it it isn't like that you're standing at the store and you can automatically instantaneously hear from the other side and Yeah. So, I got you. Yeah, that's so I guess continuing on that notion of you know, the student town and such of the few friends that I have in Germany that went there for masters and such granted they didn't go to a bonafide student town like you were able to. The thing that they mentioned is and this is just purely anecdotal, right?

this is just purely anecdotal, right? So, feel free to be like, "No, that's not how that works." But, they've they've always expressed concerns around just the German language, right? It's kind of hard to learn and there's almost like a requirement where if you're trying to get hired, you need at least like a certain level or something. So, help debunk all of that for us. What does in actual practice what does it look like? Do you need what sort of German language expertise does a student need to not just go through college, but also build out their career after graduating from Germany?

First of all, I would like to say that German language is really important because because because Germany has a monolingual culture. So, to for integration, the most important aspect is uh uh they they value language more than anything else. So, in their integration courses, they teach German as a language and once you reach B2 level, they sort of are ready to provide you uh to to you know, sort of ready to accept you as as an immigrant.

you as as an immigrant. But, I'm but that's that's just the side note. note. For students, I would say it really depends on which kind of industry you want to work for. So, if you're looking at uh uh if you're looking to work in an industry where you wouldn't need to do interactions you know, in person, um there wouldn't be any need to have interpersonal communication. Uh so, feels like engineering development, in these kind of fields, you need to interact more with the with the internal team rather than people externally. So, people outside here know German. So, so if you're working in sales or marketing marketing then you should know German. Uh I would say that would be their main requirement and also for product managers, also for UX designers sadly because user experience designers also need to

user experience designers also need to conduct user studies. Sad for me because now I need to master German. So yeah, um Got it. Yes, really depends there. Interesting and then So you [snorts] mentioned some jobs don't need it as much as others do. Now for these jobs is it kind of a more soft implicit requirement where it's good that you know it or do you just get rejected immediately during the initial filtering itself where you answered you know B2 or whatever for German proficiency. Like is it really gate kept when you try to enter or does it start to become a thing once you interviewing?

to become a thing once you interviewing? Does that question make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. But I would say that they're really open if they're going to reject you so they tell you that you don't have the requirement or during interviews they would say, "Okay, so you don't know German." German." Or they start talking in German and then you would be like, "Huh?" And you would be lost. So they would say, "Should we switch to English?" And then you would switch to English. But you So yeah, it's it's always I guess very clear when because they mention in the job job requirement or the job opening that we need C1 level German or C2 level German. And and in some they mention really good German. That is the the I would say when they don't mention the level exactly, I think that's where you can apply if you meet all the other

can apply if you meet all the other requirements and they're more or less ready to negotiate and you because they because international teams and international companies operate in English. Uh but they say that having German is a good to have. Um Mhm. Mhm. is a nice to have. So, when they explicitly mention the German level, I would say then it's uh then it's a foolish endeavor to apply because it's a waste of time. I would say it's better to apply uh when they have not mentioned anything or where you can negotiate with them that okay uh but I can do also this and that. that. Uh so, maybe you can have me on. I see. Got it. And then I guess from there, talk to me about the student life experience in general, right? Outside of

experience in general, right? Outside of you know, you're having a great time with your courses, you're learning a lot, it's you're getting to work on some really cool stuff. What is it like to actually live in Germany as a student? Um and I know your responses will be informed from the fact that you live in a more urban town, sounds like quote and quote like world urban, so to speak. But I'm sure you have other friends there that probably maybe even your sister's example. So, just generally looking to inform anybody listening that's looking to move to Germany as a student, master's student, what to expect in terms of social life, just how stuff works, do you get homesick a lot? I guess yeah, just talk me through that side of things. I guess uh your mental health really depends on on you. So,

depends on on you. So, but it can be isolating if you do not uh if you um if you like uh staying alone, then you can get really isolated in a a different country. So, I would say to push yourself even if you're not really a people person to go out of the comfort uh comfort zone and start interacting with people. If not the locals, then with fellow international students so that you can at least try to attend things in groups because I guess that may it you more courage uh when you're uh trying out new things then I guess it's better to go in a group and then maybe then try out solo traveling or something. So so that it so that you know everything around you and you feel like that you're opening up to new experiences.

experiences. And I would say that that the picture in a small town and in a bigger town like Berlin is completely different. Berlin is the capital of Germany, so Mhm. it's a very happening city. There are hundreds of events happening every day and you can just go to meetup.com or Luma and you can find out all kinds of events happening, but even in local groups in in their community chats and everything. everything. They set up different things like local flea markets and local events that you should attend. Yeah. it it is a good idea to attend these kind of events because you may never get to experience it again and who knows where you will be in future. So I And in local towns, they have local

And in local towns, they have local festivals also. In my town we have a festival called the onion festival during springs. So farmers celebrate onions. So they sort of create a lot of crops craft things with onions and there is a fair also with different kinds of How do I say it? Mhm. Mhm. The things where people go. I [clears throat] I don't um like a market like a farmers market some something like that. Something like similar to a farmers market, but there are a lot of things like Ferris wheel and uh Oh, like a carnival almost. Like a small small car Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. Got it. it. So, it's like a mini carnival and uh uh they they crown an onion uh king and onion queen. So So, that's that's really fun and I would say it's

say it's You would never get to experience this out of uh that small town, you know, like uh like Weimar. It's a Weimar festival. festival. In other towns, they have their own local festivals like a uh boating competition, you know, similar to uh also we have also boating festivals in India. India. So, I would say uh when in Rome, do as the Romans do and try to figure out uh new things. Uh Yeah, I love that. Um and then on that same note, right, continuing down that road, have you had any like dodgy type experiences with any of the locals? Like, do you generally feel welcomed or has there been one or two maybe like that was weird type experiences? Just curious about the general state of matters um in your experience during your time in Germany.

experience during your time in Germany. I would say that I've been really lucky in that regard. I've never had any uh unpleasant experiences. I have heard from others that uh the Frankfurt Airport is not safe at night. So, because people uh kind of get uh people leave their stuff for a little while and they come back and they see it's not there anymore. So, So, uh I had also heard of it before coming to Germany. I had heard about uh the Frankfurt Airport. So, I purposely traveled uh so that I would reach uh travel overnight so that I would reach there in the morning and then I could come to from the Frankfurt Airport to the Weimar train station.

the Weimar train station. Um so, um it would help to know about which places to avoid. Uh but I would say it's generally really safe and if you know which places to avoid for example uh you know dodgy parties and weird places where they if you are not into drugs or something and then it's better to avoid those places. So yeah you know and I would say this is a thing in bigger cities. Because Because bigger cities you attract all sorts of people good and bad. So So I would say not to travel in a bigger city really late in the night like I'm saying 1:00 a.m. or 2:00 a.m. And but in the days it's really safe and there's nothing nothing to worry about. And yeah just just just

to worry about. And yeah just just just avoid places in bigger cities and in smaller towns you just see no one. It's it's it's like you there's no one else but you. so that's all. That's interesting to hear you say that because generally the perception people have and some of this is partly true with like an asterisk on top. For small town Americans cities I should say like maybe even small American villages where sometimes you have some people that just have straight up never seen you know like a brown person ever.

know like a brown person ever. So which is kind of also understandable where they would like you know you you might get stared at a little bit or something. Again super rare at this rate cuz A there aren't really those many small American villages anymore and B usually why would you ever go there? I mean it just doesn't happen. But it's interesting to hear you say that despite being in Weimar which is one of the smaller cities you still haven't experienced something like that. So that's really cool because the way I extrapolate is if it's nothing like that there then the bigger cities will probably be fine. Right? Cuz they're generally more urban.

they're generally more urban. Generally have more people from outside. Yeah. Is that assessment fair, do you think? I I think I should also say this that you might get stared at, but but it can be of two types. One, people looking at you just weirdly. But also you should know that in Germany people just stare at you for no reason. That's the culture. No way. What? Yeah, that's This is a cultural thing. I've never heard of that, ever, actually. actually. Why I guess can you tell me more? Yeah, why is that? Uh Uh they are just really aware people, so uh so they kind of they don't like taking your eyes off if you have already made eye contact. So So So that's the thing. Maybe some people find it weird, but I never thought of

find it weird, but I never thought of staring as a problem. And uh uh in fact, I never notice it. Um sometimes I I'm zoning out and looking somewhere else, and if someone is staring at me, I don't I I don't see it. So yeah, that that happens. I have heard of some people saying that people are that older people are xenophobic. I guess this is this is also uh the the true for American small towns where older older folks might be a little xenophobic. But they can't really change. And um Sure. Sure. So so [sighs] it's hard to get them to change. And in my experience, I've really seen that many older folks here are really interested in talking to you.

are really interested in talking to you. So if you know a little German, Mhm. Yeah. So they would love to know know about you and just talk to you. It's a They are a little lonely, I guess. So I say it's it's uh, nice. Uh, I would say very it's it's a nice experience, but also since I'm not very fluent in German, I haven't really spoken to many people who who but then I speak to people who can speak broken English. So, and I understand their German and they understand my English, but they can't speak in the same language. So, So, Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's really fascinating. So, one of the I guess things that is coming to mind was So, I recently had one of the guests on the show who went for masters in France, right? So, he lives and works in France now. So, I remember having a segment with him which was very interesting. I enjoyed it a lot where he was sharing that anywhere you go, especially with European countries, there are always these myths that people tend to have, but that end up being not true at all.

but that end up being not true at all. So, in his case, he was like French people are just famous for being really rude and, you know, just annoying brats in general, but he was like that's not the case in his experience at all. And he we then went about how they kind of expect you to speak French versus English and all of those things, which is obviously I'll be linking that for anybody curious, but with you I'm curious, did you have any such notions in your mind when you before you had gone to Germany that after going there you realized that that's just not true and that was in fact just a complete myth? Was there something like that? I would say that I really that I don't like to have the preconceived notions before I experience something, and I would say that

about about what you also mentioned that things that you think are true, but you then realize that they are not. Uh, it's it's that you would know uh, for a for for a researcher, you would you would see uh, the frequency of things happening, but you would not generalize it. Um So for So for me, I know uh uh the there wasn't anything that I felt uh that I thought would be true, but um but may I mean, that's fair though, right? Cuz I mean, it is a valid response because if you have an open mind, then yeah, you're not going to feel like you were misled or something was a revelation, cuz you were just open to everything, which is sounds like where you were, you know, when you first moved. So that makes total sense to me, actually. Uh but I would say that I thought I wouldn't be uh I wouldn't be able to uh do a lot of stuff outside of my

uh do a lot of stuff outside of my courses, but I I [clears throat] found out that I could. Because uh because the course here was really uh gave me a lot of free hand. So I could choose which course to do in which semester, so it uh so that allowed me to do a lot of stuff uh earlier and had then have free time later. So that was quite nice.

So that was quite nice. That's awesome. Yeah, what a pleasant surprise. Yeah. What? This reminds me of of one preconceived notion that I didn't have, but uh somehow other people convinced me that it is something that's common, but I realized that it's not. It was that German people are really uh uh speak straight to the point and they are never joking around and they never laugh. So but this was a myth because when I started working at my current company, uh but I guess it's because they are from Hamburg. Hamburg has this culture of of people laughing and being more uh I guess more uh uh Jovial, yeah. More prone to you know have being humorous and what not. So So there I noticed that the culture was very different and maybe not good to generalize everybody because everyone can be very different.

can be very different. I mean that is definitely just always true across the board, right? It never helps to paint people with a broad brush cuz like people are not monoliths. Just because they're from Germany doesn't mean mean But again, having said that, there is also that tension between stereotypes exist for a reason, right? Like or otherwise they wouldn't exist. So I just like to play with those two extremes and yeah, like just pretty much as always land somewhere in the middle where you know, that's like your happy path or whatever. whatever. Um last question here before I let you go, Shreya. From your experience with your HCI masters, masters, talk to me about just the general types of of full-time roles that one can expect. So these can be you know, roles you saw your peers do, your friends do, your seniors and such.

your friends do, your seniors and such. Just generally looking for kind of what gates open up um after you have graduated with a degree in HCI. I would say that HCI is a field where you can go into whatever because it's a combination of different fields. So if you're you're So if you like psychology more than the art, design, or engineering part, then you can go into psychology. Maybe you can go into usability engineering. Um so that's one thing. And if you So there you can deal with physiological computing. computing. You can work as a researcher or a scientist in that field. If you like more design, then you can be a user experience designer or user experience researcher. And uh And if you like uh the And if you like art more than the rest, then you can be a curator. Uh you

rest, then you can be a curator. Uh you can work in uh museums or uh artistic aspect of things. Uh so uh and then engineering, of course, you can be a design engineer because uh HCI is a field where you can uh you can work in uh design uh engineering and design. And also, you can work in product management uh and all the product-related fields. So, UX prac- uh you can go into uh work as a UX practitioner or a product practitioner. practitioner. Uh HCI is just that uh is it's gives you that sort of freedom, and it depends on what you uh what you what kind of skills you focused on during your master's. So, you can build your way for your career path. path. Wow, I I had actually no idea that you

Wow, I I had actually no idea that you have so many directions to go into. And I think am I wrong in assuming that you could go down the hardware route as well, or is that uh unrelated, or is that a separate degree? You can, you can. Uh because actually, now that you have mentioned I also did you uh you can do two research projects uh uh during your uh during my master's at least, and I think this is also the case in many different uh many different programs also. So, in one of my research projects, I worked on Ardu- Arduino, and we designed um a project where uh I built a peacock interface that had no touch.

interface that had no touch. Uh so, uh the it would send messages in a a uh in a set of we had a set of 10 devices that were interconnected together on a local mm on a local uh network. Yeah. I And I could send messages from my device, which was a peacock feather interface. So, when the feathers flap like this, that was the output. So, I I had received the message from another device. device. That is awesome. Wow. If you want, I can show it to you, maybe. maybe. Yeah, that would be great. other time. Or that also works. Yeah, yeah. Or if you have like a link or something, I can just, yeah, put it in the show notes.

just, yeah, put it in the show notes. And also flash it on the screen. But sorry, yeah, keep going. Okay. So, and I had spring spring pockets in my device. So, if someone wanted to send a message to one of the other interconnected devices, then they would put a feather in the spring pocket. And depending on which number of the number of feather pockets they filled, it would send the message to that device number. Got it. Wow. So, yeah, you deal into hardware. And if you're into that, then you can work as a hardware designer. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I guess I was going to say one of the side effects of um having this conversation is I Yeah, I had actually no idea how interested I am in this type of thing. So, might be too

this type of thing. So, might be too late for me to, you know, do a master's or something, but I'm like what you have left me with. No, no. I I feel like I've I've gotten my last degree in this lifetime, at least. But I guess what you have left me with is like a really strong desire to just do self-study, quote unquote, whatever that looks like, right? It's like such a nebulous term. But yeah, this is something that I would love to explore more. And I want to commend you and thank you for talking about these things in in a way that it really shows how, you know, passionate you are about these type of things and this field that you work with. And I can tell that this is something that, you know,

something that, you know, it didn't go away when you were still trying to figure out what's the next path after computer science. So, that's awesome and I I want to call that out also because I'm still looking for that thing. Right? So, I'm just trying to say that that you're you should be and I'm probably sure you are, but you should be grateful that you found that thing for yourself. So, So, yeah, I just wanted to share that and Shreya, this has been so awesome. I've learned so much and, you know, thank you so so much for taking the time here today to talk through your experiences and learnings with us. And, yeah, really looking forward to continue to be connected watching your work on LinkedIn and, you know, I'll be linking your LinkedIn in the show notes for anybody that wants to say hi or

for anybody that wants to say hi or connect with you. So, thank you so much. It was lovely speaking with you. Thank you so much for inviting me and listening to me talk. I appreciate that.