How To Start An AI-based Company & Community opensphere.ai - w/ Atal

Then why don't you stay back in your country and help make that better? Why do you want to come to America in the first place? We don't need you, we're fine. I'm Naman Pane and in this episode, featured not expert is Atal Agarwal. Not of the people who support the party of white supremacist. Atal is the founder of OpenSphere.ai, which is a community-based AI platform that leverages immigration lawyers to help speed up your visani.

The more I started realizing that, dude, like these people had not even Americans, a lot of them. Perhaps more importantly though, Atal is a big advocate for Indian immigrants in the US and their rights. Off the back of Trump's latest executive order, a lot has been said about birthright citizenship and what it all entails. So I started building out this product, started using AI. Now we help people file their visas for O1, EV1, EV2, EV5. That accent will put off an Indian in India. I got reached out by times now, they do a show. It is not racist when abuses in the system are pointed out.

So many people supported Trump, especially like the Indian community. Everyone is like, yeah, we are part of, we believe in merit, we believe in hard work. Welcome to the Ready Set Do podcast, where we learn from journeys of not experts who are just two steps ahead of us. In keeping with the theme of learning from somebody that's just two steps ahead of us instead of an expert, my goal with this episode is to spotlight Atal and his dedicated work towards raising awareness for what he thinks is right.

This is a Ready Set Do podcast and to support it, please subscribe to me on YouTube and leave me up to a 5 star 81 spotify or your favorite podcast app. There are links in the description for more direct ways to support me. And now without any further to do my friends, here's Atal. I was just off of your live on X just now and yeah, do you want to breathe here? Because I know that was a lot and you've been doing a lot of those recently. So how has that been? Can you kick us off here?

It's kind of funny, like, you know, I think I like experimenting with different things. So today has been crazy experiment. I mean, I've been tweeting a lot about like, you know, just the rights of legal immigrants. So I got, I got reached out by times now. They do a show prime time. I think prime time beyond the headlines. So they invited me to be one of the panelists there. So there was a very intense discussion, kind of like geopolitical discussion where you see people from Republican side, like Americans who are there and they invited me as like the voice of Indian immigrants. So that was very interesting.

And then I hosted this session with a lawyer to just like know about the legal immigrants and their rights and I was testing out rivers. It's, it's really great. And I know for, you know, because you've just done that and I'm not sure if it's aired yet, the time is now session. Can you maybe give us your, you know, like your highlight reel of some of the, you know, really crucial or interesting things that you were able to talk about on that. If you're allowed to. I mean, so it went live. It was life session.

I think one thing which definitely stood out to me that there was a person who was Republican in there. And then someone asked him the question about like, Hey, what do you think about this? This kind of his death, executive order about birth, rights, citizenship and the impact, especially on people who are long term visa holders. So, so I think just to give some background. The executive order here is that people who are on work visa, if they have their kids in US, what's going to happen is their kids would not have the US citizenship.

So if you think about what's going to happen, the real time practical impact of this is like people on H1B who have been in the hundred plus years of backlog. They basically cannot have families in the US, like they cannot plan on their families. So, especially like next day, there is like husband and wife or someone that say got married before coming here. Their wife is an H4 dependent. So basically, if they have kids now, they won't be US citizens.

So basically, their future of their kids does not exist in America and people are not understanding the gravity of their situation. Like 100 plus years of weight already, they're dealing with it. Now, even they don't have a brighter future for the next generation, their kids. So there is nothing to look forward to about like, okay, what is this? This is the future going to be bright in America. This is just really worth settling, you know, everything is up in the air right now.

If you think about other people like PSDs and all, they are on F1 visa, J1 visas, and all these PSDs, if they decide to have like, you know, doing their PSG, they want to get married, they might be of the age of like between 25 to 35. Let's say they want to get married and at some point it might happen that they want to get married and they want to have kids and the kids would not have any legal rights in this country.

So in a way, what they're saying is like, when the kid is born, there are cities in the country where they came from, which means you have to figure out their visa along with doing all the things about getting out there. So this doesn't make any sense. So I think what stood out to me in that conversation going back to it, the times conversation, the Republican person was saying, Oh, no, no, no, this is not going to be passed by the executive by the Supreme Court.

So he was saying it himself, which really questions me the integrity of the party and the people who are going there is like, guys, like what you are talking something else, your people are talking something else, you are getting sued left and right by every state. And here you are like, you know, talking about the party of merit and standing up for the right legal people. I mean, it doesn't even make sense to. I mean, if they really wanted to go with good intentions and let's say they were saying, Oh, this birth tourism happens.

Guys, just like, you know, do if you want to do it, you can do it for tourists visa, right? You can say if you're on a B1B2 visa, you want to control birth tourism or apply that. But the language clearly says birth, work, all these different visas. So it's not just the intention in the intention is wrong here is what I'm saying. And I think that's where I'm concerned about because so many people supported Trump, especially like the Indian community.

Everyone is like, yeah, we are part of we believe in merit. We believe in hard work and we want America to be more of a land of opportunity and for merit. And here we are seeing on the other side, the party is sneaking in things like this, which are actually empty merit. So on the face value of it is like, Oh, wow, we are talking about merit this and that. And on the under under the radar, they are like really acting very corrupt in this situation.

So, and I think another thing to highlight here is just the seeming difference between, you know, the rules that apply to really any country say in Europe versus those in Asia. You know, because if you were to look at just the green card backlog, why is it that just for, you know, India and like other Asian countries that time so much more longer than if it than if you were just coming from say a European country. So that also has something that has to feel, you know, a little suspicious to me as well personally, but yeah, this looks like it would affect them as well.

Right. It's everybody across the board, even a few European, you would not, you would not be able to have birthright citizenship is that right is my understanding. Of course, I mean, see, we have to go down the history of America. There is no doubt that American forefathers happened to be coming from Europe. Right. But we have to understand what the model of the country they wanted to build. Right. What the identity they wanted to give to this country, the identity was not of a Euro, another European nation.

That was not the point. They didn't want another part, another European country. The whole idea of this country is on merit and the country has also gone through a civil rights civil war. And after the civil war, there is a law of the land, which is like anyone born in the US soil, irrespective of what the color of skin or who they are, they actually have legal rights to this land. Like as a citizen. Yeah. And that's why I think they were saying it will probably be struck down by the Supreme Court because it is so deeply, you know, integrated in the constitution of America.

The fact that if you're born here, you will probably be your citizen. But I mean, after that, if you think about like, you know, the immigration act and the immigration laws and how they have been designed. I mean, let's say even then the intentions were like, okay, they were not all pro merit because if you think about merit, that employment based visas, which are merit based, should not have a country cap. You can have diversity diversity visa and you can say, okay, I want to have diversity and I can put a country cap to ensure diversity.

But when you so you can have diversity and pro diversity and I say diversity visa makes sense. But when you're creating employment based visa, you are basically creating a visa where an employer needs a worker and they bring them on. So the diversity is not a component of it. So you do not put a country cap on diversity based visas. And that's where I feel like it was very wrong to as a design that you have country caps on employment based visa. Like that's history that is passed.

But when you move ahead, you are going to go towards a merit based system and you want more to be married. You have here, that's where you know, these long backlogs are there and that's why we are like so much pro removal of country cap in employment based visas, because that is the right thing to do. You got to remove all these, uh, all these situations where someone who is like very well qualified, very hardworking, come, came on merit is stuck in the green card backlog. But now all these people are stuck in this backlog.

There are 100 plus years of backlog. Now, when you when you create like this situation where an executive order say that their, their kids would not be even having a, a citizenship, you are basically saying. Impacting only these countries like China and India who are actually more who have a lot more people coming in because of just the site of the population. Like it's like, naman, I do not know where you are from India. I mean so many people who are from South India, they do share the same country name, but understanding each other.

We have different languages. We appear like, yeah, just like how we are united as a humanity together. The subcontinent for a reason, right? We are essentially a continent with many countries that are just states in our case, we just call them states instead of countries, but really we are a subcontinent. That's always a term that I never understood growing up, but now I understand why the peninsula is referred to as a subcontinent.

So here I'm going to, you know, try and steal man the argument from the other side, right? So let's like, I'll just pretend to be somebody that's, you know, not necessarily in favor of this new resolution, but just trying to, you know, distill your ideas a little bit more. So I think the biggest reason that the people's site, at least American people that believe in this type of stuff is that they say that the H&B codals are misused.

Like, you know, American companies just use that as a way to pay much lower wages to people from other countries that are willing to do the work in the same amount of time or more actually than Americans would. And it kind of leads to just a lot of other ways, you know, the ways of corruption, you just were able to employ five people instead of one, you know, that you would have to employ an American. You can have five people, two from India, two from Philippines, wherever whatever the case might be. So what is your take around this?

Would you say this is completely unjustified or would you say that maybe there is some truth to this argument is there? So, I mean, a hundred percent there is a truth to an, to this argument that there are challenges in the current H&B system. Like, there are people who might be exploiting the system. Now, are you saying you are, you are saying the system is going to be full proof, the new system that you're going to come out with?

Now, systems, just like human beings, systems cannot be field proof. Like, just like, you know, you give guns to 100 people, you say two people are like actually going to misuse it while 98 people going to use it for their own protection. Just like you go on a street and you will say like, okay, 100 people, you will say all good people and they would be like one person who would be like, Oh, I'm just a, this is not just true everything up for everybody.

This is how human beings are, we are like, we are like the moral corruption in a human human being is very much true, but that's not you give us an argument to like kill a very good system, which works. So, this is a, this, this, there is some truth to what might be happening, but at the same time, this is no reason to say like, Oh, I'm going to shut down H&B or I'm not. Every, and people are like, okay, well, if you want to shut down H&B, that's fine. You first create a better system, but then do not come back and say, Oh, your better system is not working because it's highly possible. There are flaws in that.

Or it's just the old system with a new veneer, you know, nothing's actually changed. They just call it something else. I feel like that also happens a bunch. Not a time that happens, you just create a new system and say, Oh, we created a new system and then you say, Oh, the same problems exist. So, so if there is, there is a validate to the argument, there is like a lot of perspective about like, Hey, please improve it.

If you want to increase the million salary gap, please improve it. But the biggest of all, which people are not ready to like, you know, even discuss and avoiding it is like what you're going to do, even in this situation, how are you going to give green cards to these people. So figure out how to give them green card first. Figure out how to create a password for them. If you want, no one is against like, Oh, you want to cut down immigration or you want to like, you know, improve only few people to come in, but do do it on a merit based system.

Do not create a mess out of the system where you are like bringing employees and not offering them to have the same rights as the residents of this country. Absolutely. And from the outside looking in, it almost feels like this has been a very divisive topic for within the Republicans party as well, because on one side, you have, you know, all the MAGA Republicans that are just like, okay, just do away with it altogether.

But on the other side, there are obviously, Elon must probably is the biggest example of somebody that at least in the past had stood up and was like, no, we need this. You guys just don't understand we would not works. There would be no Silicon Valley without, you know, the S shouldn't be. And it just feels like such a big division, you know, and you don't normally see something like this. So are you able to offer any, maybe any takes that you would have thought upon or that you would have come to when it comes to the background of this why this is like that and why this is such a divisive issue within the Republican Party itself.

I think the reason there is a, there is like a lot of division within the party is because a lot of the, lot of the people who support the party, a big, big mass of it is actually very much white supremacist. And these people just do not understand the idea of America. They just didn't even grew up with the mindset of merit. They didn't, they just like think about like world as a zero sum game and they do not understand how to play win will arguments, right?

And Silicon Valley has very much been about win will arguments because tech has been winning. And big part of it is because tech has been winning over the last 30 years, you know. So when people have seen like, Oh, wow, like, you know, it doesn't matter which country you are from or what race you are from and we can all work together and create a win win game for each of us. People are like, Holy shit, this is, this is gold. Right.

So that's why that's why that has been in the minds of a lot of people in Silicon Valley, but a lot of people in the Trump Party just to not look at the world from that lens. Now Elon Musk knows the game on the world is very much about talent density. You bring the brightest people together and you allow them to think and create knowledge and then you make money out of it. This is how the world works. You bring in the Spanish people in a place and you allow them to flourish with each other and they learn from each other and they create great value and you sell the value in the world. That's how America has been sustaining.

So even must knows that his company hires the best people and the moment they would not be able to get the best people in the country, then those people gone on because those people are going to do something out there in other countries, like human on their own country. Yeah, yeah, but their own place might be. And nowadays with this internet age, like you don't need to be in a country like America to be able to create that value like, you know, you can build deeper connections one on one with American people.

You can literally create that hard to hard connection irrespective of whether you are in America or not. And even so many Americans crave that Indian side where they want to go for spirituality and come to India. So I mean, breaking the world into India and America doesn't make any sense because we are all together in this consciousness. And I mean, this is definitely from Indian ancestry. We just like look at the world as one big planet together.

Yeah, and now it's very hard to convince a part portion of these people who are kind of like all in their mind in their head and not able to think clearly. And I mean, in a way, a lot of the good Republicans are like a lot of the progressive group up because I'm trying to take these people and drag them with them that hey guys, like look at the better picture. These people are going to come to the country. They're going to create jobs for you all and your future kids and everyone. And it's going to be great.

But not even understanding it. So it's very hard to fight that. That's very true. And you know, if you add to that, the fact that, you know, there's so much contribution to the economy, almost basically no crime whatsoever. When it comes to the, you know, Indian American cohort, like pretty much it feels like it's a net good, at least in my very uninformed opinion. But I think then going back to my topic of our theme of kind of steel manning the other side's arguments. I think the next one that I hear just commonly that honestly sometimes feel cycle gotcha moment to me.

But one that works a little bit is that if you're all so great, then why don't you stay back in your country and help make that better. Why do you want to come to America in the first place? We don't need you. We're fine. If you're so great and if you're so talented, stay back where you are and build your own home better than it is today. I personally kind of struggle with that a little bit just because I don't know the immediate, you know, not retort, but just how to reconcile that in my head.

So can you offer anything on around those lines or people who say that or think that? Well, I think I think a lot of people who give this argument basically do not have an understanding about how India has progressed over the last 10, 20 years. And I mean, they don't understand like, you know, after after India got freedom, we have been on the on the role, like our country. I think in a short term humanity and like, you know, people in India would look at like, Oh, Oh, I mean, all these problems exist in India and all.

But dude, when you look at the time we got independence to now, you see the confidence in Indians where they are standing up for themselves. It has gone insanely high. And the world is if the world in the game of confidence and, you know, developing your own narratives, India is developing its own narrative. India is appearing in the world map as a sovereign country, you know, standing up for itself. And I think a lot of people who say like, Okay, well, why don't you stay back in India to not understand how much development has happened in India.

And they think people are trying to skip out of India, which is not true, yeah, which maybe it was true 30 years ago, more so than now, but you're right, 100% it's not as true anymore. And people like me, we just never thought about like, Hey, America is any better. We were like, Okay, we are seeking knowledge. I want to learn more. I want to like explode the world. It's natural for me to as a human being to learn from other human beings from around the world. Right. So, so the argument is not about like someone trying to escape, but seeking more knowledge.

Now, will will will that chase for knowledge is going to die down because of any one person or like few people thinking you should not do that. No, we are still seeking knowledge on the Internet. It doesn't matter where we are. And we are still seeking the same with the same curiosity. So I don't think that is changing anywhere. Now, my other argument to those people who think like, you know, why don't you go back to India.

I mean, I think we should look at the world holistically because that's just how world works. Like you cannot make the world work with just America. If that was possible. America would not be dead of China. Like you see how consumer mindset is like every consumer in America chose to take a product at a cheaper price than it was coming from China and the same thing happened. Yeah, even the chance and the same thing happened in India too. If you think about it, like consumer is like, you remember those divided lights like people would be like that.

Divine lights are made in India were expensive, but people chose those lights that were made in China because they were like, well, these lights are cheaper and cheaper. Yeah. At the end of money is king. You know, cash is king as they say you don't only up to an extent. Can you be nationalist when there's a matter of food on the table? All of most people's nationalism understandably goes out. Yeah. Like you can't be. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Food on the table is one part of it. Even for the luxury that we seek, given how money works, you always seek like, okay, can I have the most wants meat for the most of the desires met with the least amount of money?

Like that's why I think so. So people giving this argument like not understanding that Americans are buying Chinese goods and there is a big loss happening because of that. So it's a better like, you know, think about those things at deeper level and worrying about like, okay, what's going to happen with like these people coming into the country guys bring the talent talent is going to create jobs for Americans for everyone else.

Allow the people who are talent. There are very few people who are ambitious. Allow those ambitious people to continue to give their gifts with the world and continue to lead. Do you know, should no one should be a blocker for people who want to live their dreams doing good work doing hard work America has the responsibility for it as well. Absolutely. And, you know, America wouldn't get where it is without people like that. So it's kind of shifting gears just a little bit.

Something that I've noticed about you that is that you've been really, you know, really active and really taking the charge on Twitter and such. And personally, my question, I guess, something that I wonder about generally is, you know, what drives you to do that or elaborate this way. What is the change that you're seeking to inculcate by, you know, posting so much sharing so much awareness and your expertise on the subject.

Given your you've been for such a long time, the flagship of so many Indian Americans in the US through not only your works and your companies, but really the communities that you've built. So, is it just to, you know, share the change or is it just to inform people or are you seeking to build bring about a bigger change here. I think there is a bigger change that need to be brought about this. I think one part of my mission is to help people understand how great India is now and kind of like, you know, I think I look at world as like strength respect strength.

And I am already seeing there is a lot of change in India and people need to understand that change and need to respect India for what it's bringing to the world. And so that is like one part of my work, which I really want to deliver more. The other thing is I mean, I think in my life, I mean, if I when I look at like, you know, how much of American and how much Indian I am, I mean, I've spent like one fourth of my life in America.

And I mean, it's very important to understand that now I represent represent that culture because I live there with the people. So it's very important to continue guiding America in the right direction where I'm seeing a lot of that wrong mindset coming in on lot of like, you know, people not not going with the right narrative about America. So it's my responsibility to stand up for America and India both and show that, okay, what is a better way to live. And I mean, losing America is not an option losing India is not an option.

It is very important to stand up for what's right. And I mean, that's all my advocacy is about like telling people guys like this is just like playing wrong and we got to find it out and understand where it's wrong and continue to talk about it. Absolutely. And something I want to do here is kind of just show some of just the wild responses you've been getting on some of your tweets. I think it's just remarkable. Just the amount of stuff or the type of stuff that people come up with.

And I'm looking to kind of, you know, understand how you deal with that, honestly, because it's just a lot. But before I do that, I do want to offer you the chance to talk about the work you've been doing with OpenSphere.ai. I think it's really cool and I'm fairly well versed with it. But if you had to, you know, kind of pitch that through my viewers, how would you go about doing that? So I think just basically what happened with my life is like when I was an H1B or I mean, F1 initially, I wanted to build companies and I was having a hard time navigating the immigration system.

And slowly, the problem just continued even on H1B. And I was like, this just does not make any sense to me. Like, you know, I want to create jobs for American people. I want to build companies. Why should I be concerned about like, you know, my visa? So when I mean that mindset was deep in me, like, I want to create jobs. Like, I don't want to be a job seeker. I want to be a job creator. Like, it was always in my mind. And I was like always feeling like shut down.

So when I started realizing this problem bothers me a lot. I started building out like how I'm going to solve this problem. Like, you know, just instead of just talking about it. So I started building out this product, started using AI. Now we help people file their visas for O1, EB1, EB2, and EB5. We have partner with immigration lawyers and we help people get visas and we are not we are like an advocacy driven movement about supporting legal immigrants in their journeys.

And they have a lot of partners to offer to get make that happen. I mean, down the road, my platform is turning into global mobility platform where it's not just about the US. They will help people go to the countries where they are respected and created the best and also advocate for them and their rights in those countries. So that's kind of pretty much what we're building. That's so cool, man. I was recently talking to a friend about this friend is also he's also Indian that lives in America and he was like, you know, I just feel like at every step of the way America wants to kick me out.

But from what I've heard, there are other countries such as Dubai, et cetera, that are much more welcoming. So he was like, I wish I could look that up. I wish I could find out what the process is like for that. But there is no easy source to do that. Of course, you could Google, but it's just not the same as talking to somebody that has been there done that. So it sounds like what often open sphere could be helpful for as well as for people like him to just go on there. Maybe talk to a few people, understand what the process is like and then make their own informed decisions.

Is that something that's on the works kind of or is that already something that you're doing? Definitely. So we have a community very big community now for 1500 people. We have it says a WhatsApp community. I mean, see, I think I'm very much about like, how can I help these people get out and it's not just about getting the visas, but actually showing them a path to have their own financial freedom. I mean, that happens to entrepreneurship and kind of like building your own thing. So I help people. We have like more of like kind of like small accelerators where people can work together and build their own companies. Yeah.

Wow, that's, I mean, I'll for sure be checking it out. I'm very intrigued by what you do here. So I know we don't have a lot of time here left. So I saved the best for last. I'm going to kind of share some of the replies to your tweets. And again, really, I'm just looking for when you read that. So when I read that, I know immediately the kind of response that my whole peripheral nervous system triggers. I'm just trying to understand how how you react to this. And I know you usually don't engage, which I think is smart, but yeah, just so we'll just, you know, put it up here.

I used to give some background. Okay. So yeah, yeah. When I was doing this initially, I was definitely concerned about it, you know, as like anyone else. But the, the more I started doing it, the more I started realizing that dude, like these people had not even Americans, a lot of them. So what they're really doing is just like, you know, it's just gross. It's just so, so bad. Like, you know, like, look at this. My message is go back.

It is the endgame America has woken up. I mean, it's just the entitlement. Yeah. I mean, by the way, actually, I have a lot to say, I was just going to say. Yeah. Yeah. The government is a very interesting question. So people say it's an entitlement to be waiting in the green card backlog your entire life. And being in America is a, is a, you know, you are an entire, you're feeling entitled for being in America. People do not really understand that dude living in America is not an entitlement. It's the freedom that is the entitlement that people pray for. And that's why they come to America. There is no freedom.

It is literally nothing. Yeah. And I mean, so that one at least was intellectual, right? There is at least some reasoning going on there. Like, look at this one, which educated Indians started working on their grooming as well, not sure how this person got there. That accident will put off an Indian in India. And this actually feels like this is an Indian person. So that's honestly even more, I don't know, just concerning or maybe not, maybe they aren't.

They are some cricket stuff. So they are Indian. Okay. So I mean, what do you say to people like that? Like, bro, why are you self scoring on goals here? Like, what is. I think to these people see, I mean, I think I have learned that being a learner and a shameless learner, you can go really far in life. Yeah, I'm going to add this as a quote. Being a shameless learner, you can go very far in life. What I am is I'm a very shameless learner. I do not look at these things as like criticism in me for me. I look at these as like, Oh, wow, if let's let someone is saying about grooming.

I know I have a lot of work to do it. Let's say I want to wonder. I want to be like, you know, in a very big position that I got to do a lot of work on myself and it is my duty to continue working and doing it at the same time in my today, I have to continue fighting for what I believe in as well. Absolutely. And then that's that's also dovetails that also dovetails so well with tweets like that one. So this is some American gentleman who's, you know, he's just so nice and making sense now. And I'm not just saying that because he's agreeing with your side here, but I'm just, it's, I'm just commenting on how this makes sense to me much more as a reply than the others where he's saying stuff like it is, you know, at least he's trying to make a cogent argument.

Like, you know, for those Indians who are contributing, I believe they will be welcomed by the neighbors and the community. But he's also like Donald Trump and his staff have come to highlight whatever blah blah and then it is not racist when abuses in the system are pointed out. You know, I can, you can work with people like this at least they're trying to come up with cogent arguments. But yeah, obviously the same can't be said about on, you know, other people.

Just kind of wanted to bring this up and kind of pick your brain about how you like deal with this sounds like you just don't usually take this stuff too hard too much. And what he said about being a shameless learner definitely rings true mode. So here than anywhere else where, you know, you just like have a thick skin. Don't let that stuff stick. They probably are just lashing out due to anger towards themselves or whatever it's not your job to, you know, be their counselor or whatever you can just carry on with your own life. So, yeah, go ahead.

I want to add like, you know, one way to look at it is like, you know, if you look at all the top people in the world, the top corporates, like, you know, meet Elon Musk or September or anyone, right. If you think about it, like how many, how many people who criticize them would be there in the world, like they put out a tweet. There would be thousands of people that could decide, right, because it does it impact Elon not to be able to stand up for what he believes in.

He does like when he, when he stood up for H1B people, he literally was in the most vulnerable position. I saw him in the last one year. So he stood up for it. That period between Christmas and New Year, right? Where it was the whole H1B wars on on Twitter. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, if he stands up for these people, when he believes in it and he can fight everyone else, you know, it basically shows that leaders are very much about who stand up for the right things. And I believe that is the most important part.

So, I mean, I don't think, I think these things are very small. And we should think about how we are impacting the civilization, how we are leaving the world a better place to live. Absolutely. And with that, do you have any final words for any Indian immigrants in the US be it on H1B or shorter term visas or maybe students that are currently planning on coming to the US? Anything that you want to share with them as of this moment?

I think, I think first of all, these should be very grateful for being born in India. And I'm, the reason I'm saying this is like, India is such a great country. You look at how what is happening in the entire world to get a perspective that when people think about like, Hey, coming to America from India to India is a great country. You can always come back. You can always come back home. A lot of people in other countries do not have that pathway. They just cannot go back.

There is a war happening in their home country or there is some issue happening and they cannot go back. We are so grateful that our country is doing so well and we got to continue giving back to India and continue lifting our communities in India. That's kind of my big message. Like do not take this like, you know, these are all like, you know, you will find talent. You will find intellectual talent. You will find great people where you want to build. Just focus on your own dreams and your own freedom. Do not let because time is very short.

You cannot let your youth be passing without you being fulfilled on what you are doing. So focus on what will fulfill you the most and just like take those leaves, it will work out. Amazing. That is such a great message for anybody listening until I want to thank you here for taking the time. I know you have a really busy schedule and I know you have so much more to do and just really continuously. Irrespective of any executive orders or not, you've been such a lighthouse for this entire community for so many years now.

And it has truly been my pleasure to finally connect with you and have a conversation. Shout out to our common friend Vijayan for setting this up. And yeah, with that, I would love to, you know, take your leave and I hope you have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much for having me now. That brings us to the end of that conversation with Atal. Hopefully that last part wasn't too jarring for you. If you would like to support me, the easiest way to do that is by subscribing to me on YouTube and leaving me up to a 5 star 81 Spotify or your favorite podcast apps. Catch you all in the next one. New episodes whenever I want.