How To (Plan &) Optimise For A Vacation In India (First-time Travel Experiences From An American's POV In FIVE Indian Cities) - w/ Beni

I flew in to Delhi in the north and then I took a train from there to Kota and then I rode in a car from Kota to Udapur and then flew to Kolkata and then flew to Kolhapur. As a white person, what was it like to be on any street in an Indian city? What's the name of this dog? Rabul, Rabul, good job. I'm Nan Pandit and in this episode featured not expert is Benny Wilson. Wilson. Our discussion today revolves around Benny's first visit to India and we explore his experiences through the perspective of an American person's first time in the subcontinent. We start with the similarities between America and India which might surprise you actually that list is not as short as you might imagine and then move on to

you might imagine and then move on to covering the differences starting with the smaller ones and going all the way to the largest. Some of the topics that we cover, especially those around religion, can be slightly triggering for some people. So, viewer discretion is advised. It seemed like a lot of the nice buildings in Kolkata were built 50 or 100 years ago and and weren't quite as well maintained since then, maybe.

as well maintained since then, maybe. What about the food? Um, do you have any stomach upset stories? Any dodging? Yeah, by the end, if you're struggling to survive, struggling to make ends meet, figuring out what to do with your trash is the least of your concerns, I guess. Yeah. And to close out, um, three things that every American going must do or know. I was impressed at the overall religiosity. It seemed like even a non-religious people still wish to grave. In line with our theme of learning from somebody that's just two steps ahead instead of an expert, my goal with this episode is to inform any American that is planning a trip to India and help them figure out how they can optimize the main course of the experiences that they're seeking along with the side of here's what to expect.

with the side of here's what to expect. about a quarter of the time and but nobody else was wearing masks so I felt a little silly wearing one. Um and part of that subscribe on YouTube and any podcast app for weekly episodes featuring not experts every Wednesday and daily clips from those episodes on Instagram, YouTube and LinkedIn. And now without any further ado, here's Benny and his two daughters that crashed the interview at various times.

Welcome to the Ready Set Do podcast where we learn from journeys of not experts who are just two steps ahead of us. Benny, welcome right here. Uh and before we begin also, thanks for hosting me. Uh guys, this is Benny's den that I'm crashing here not just for this podcast. I was also just visiting. But yeah, and we'll be talking over your experiences while in India. Why don't you just share which five? Yeah. So I flew in to Delhi in the north and then I took a train from there to Kota and then uh I rode in a car from Kota to Udapur and then flew to Kolkata and then flew to Kolhapur and then flew back to Kolkata and then flew out from there.

Kolkata and then flew out from there. Okay, makes sense. So yeah, see a decent mix of big and small cities kind of in there. And yeah, as we were chatting earlier, the way we wanted to structure this was to go over kind of all of your experiences under the lens of similarities as well as differences. So let's just uh dive in with the similarities. I wouldn't think there would be too many. But having said that, yeah. What were some things that you found kind of throughout your travels while in India were similarish to how stuff is in the US that obviously you've you're used to given from here? It was probably easier to notice the differences than the similarities that are yours just cuz sometimes you just don't even notice that it's the same cuz

don't even notice that it's the same cuz you're used to it. Um, one thing that surprised me how similar it was was the airports. They were just like pretty much the same. That was intrigating. Yeah. Yeah. There's some small differences. Uh they made you go through security during layovers, which we usually don't do in the US, but I mean, but yeah, I was impressed at how modern the airports were. And they Yeah. In terms of signage and such, did you ever struggle to find, you know, where to go?

struggle to find, you know, where to go? And I think all the airports that I was at had English. All of them had at least two tech two languages, at least English and Hindi, and then usually a third local state language, too. And it helps that you can somewhat understand Hindi which I'm sure that's not true for most Americans. Yes. But I'm sure that was something that you know helped you. I don't know maybe. Yes. Naman was uh one of my first Hindi teachers. Hats does some Hindi phrases and some voice notes.

some Hindi phrases and some voice notes. Yeah. I remember when you kids first when you recorded your kids uh singing I sent it to my mom straight away. That was the first thing I did and we were all just completely blown away and obviously my mom and my parents have met you all. They love you. They they just are you know ever so glad um for you know the for getting a chance to know you and you know for all that you do for myself and international students such as but yeah so airports were similar coming back what were some of the other similarities? Um, I was mostly overwhelmed by differences by the end of the trip. I remember commenting to one of my friends I was visiting or maybe it

of my friends I was visiting or maybe it was my friend's cousin who I hadn't met before the trip, but I remarked uh everything's so different here except the people. People are the same. Like people are people wherever you go. You drive down the street, you see a group of uh teenagers laughing together on the street. It's like, yeah, yeah, mo so much of the context is different. The uh the shops are different, the streets are narrower, the the cars are backwards, the traffic is different, but but the the te's laughing on the street corner, that is the same. The man sitting in his shop on his phone waiting for a customer. Yeah. Or uh somebody just standing waiting at a a bus stop or sitting on a bench or whatever. I don't know. With that, that's a very interesting call out. And my follow-up

interesting call out. And my follow-up to that is when with that group of teenagers laughing, did you notice that maybe they were louder, they were, you know, were within that context, were there any differences to how you would see a general group of teenagers in the US? Yeah. Um or not really? I don't know. There these days the teams in the US are maybe more antisocial. If I would up there, depends on but on the outside it would look most yeah so I can understand they're joking in Morati or Bengali or something I don't remember which stuff yeah I know for sure but it's like I don't know what they said but they're it's yeah you don't need to know but yeah yeah it's just them having a good time for sure uh were there any other similarities or is that um the

other similarities or is that um the church that I visited was surprising ly similar other than most of it being in Hindi with an English English translator. Um I was surprised at how similar. Um and I uh do have some I feel like like uh Christianity can be more adapted to local cultures than it has been sometimes. that uh I maybe would have preferred to see a church in Kolkata that was more reflecting the local culture somehow more rather than just duplicating a western model cuz Christianity was originally Middle Eastern and it's uh taken on a western flavor in recent years in certain countries. I don't know. Anyway, so that was a little bit of a tangent but I feel like No, I

of a tangent but I feel like No, I actually think that's interesting. So you're saying that your experience at that church was not too different from your experience? Yeah. Didn't you some of the songs but it wouldn't isn't that expected like Yeah, I guess. But you're saying maybe they could have in Bengali. Yeah, it seemed like uh the band seemed like an American band. The songs sounded American. I remember you had put out like a very poignant, very heartfelt message around that. Um that was the first time in your you know recent travel experiences like for that trip I mean where you felt like you weren't alone.

That was um that was one of my favorite experiences. I was I guess I was mostly just missing home by that point. um a week into the trip, halfway through the trip and uh starting to feel the culture shock and ready to come home and the same familiarity familiarity and then going to the church um was really refreshing to feel like, oh, even though these people don't look like me, there's only one other white person in the church, I still feel like the kindred spirit that the same spirit of God living in us. uh and the same Jesus that we're worshiping and that we're we are family even if I don't know them there's some special connection that I could feel that was Yeah. Yeah. And I'll try and link that to the show notes so that somebody can Yeah. cuz I remember

that somebody can Yeah. cuz I remember when you were sharing that you were just you could see the emotion that you were going through and I don't know it was very uh it was very it like it left crazy I remember and it you know left an impact on me cuz as I could tell it left an impact on you. Yeah. Yeah. So realizing that missing my people I wasn't necessarily missing Americans.

Yeah. despair, right? Realizing these are my people. Even if they look different, even if they're even if they don't speak my language, you're still united. Yeah, we're still one big family. Absolutely. Amazing. And I Is that what is that? Yeah. Love three. I think that's those were the only similarities. Fair enough. And it's funny that even out of those three, two were like semiish, which is crazy. That's obviously what would I what I would have expected. Yeah. I mean, cars were the same except they were mirror images. It I knew we'd be driving on the left side of the road, but it took me longer to get used to entering the car from from the side. Yeah. I'm surprised you say that over the two-wheeler extravaganza that India. Yeah. So, the other vehicles

that India. Yeah. So, the other vehicles were different having the which makes the whole experience just completely different, right? And the traffic was different. And I the highways were pretty similar. The roads in town were interesting. Uh narrower in general and right, you know, people not following the stop lights and very few stop lights and stop signs. So yeah, in Kolkata, they followed the traffic laws the best.

they followed the traffic laws the best. Really? And uh in other places, Kota didn't have a single stoplight or stop sign in the whole city. My friend there was explaining to me that recently they had purposefully removed all of them and to help traffic flow better and it flowed. It did flow the same as in the US but it worked too. So um okay perfect. So obviously I know there would have been a few differences.

there would have been a few differences. Mhm. Um we just went over one and we can also like come back to that. But maybe if we can if you don't mind walking us through um like the least different different progressing to the biggest differences if it's a tall order and you don't have to stick to that but I feel like it would be engaging for me listen to it from that perspective. So what were some of the smallest differences that you that you found? Yeah, maybe we can restructure it. Um, I don't know. There are plenty of little differences, I guess. So, actually, before we begin to set the stage with the driving and traffic situation, would you put that in the small differences bucket or big

small differences bucket or big differences bucket? Uh, or somewhere in between. Maybe somewhere in the middle. Okay, fair enough. Um, it might even be easier to categorize versus by expected differences and unexpected. Let's do it. So like language and food I expected to be different of course and uh I knew driving would be on the left side of the road. I'd heard the traffic was crazy. crazy. Um and uh other things that were more unexpected like seeing cows in the middle of the road and or um all the three-wheelers at uh wait the tubor if you have the autos all the auto rich.

you have the autos all the auto rich. Yeah. Yeah. So makes sense and we will come to that. But since you mentioned food and language, let's just quickly get that out of the way. For language, did you feel like you pretend for a second you don't understand Hindi? I feel like that's important cuz most Americans that I visit, right? Probably don't. But would you say that you were able to get by decently enough? Do you have any anecdotes around language specifically? Yeah. Um, yeah. So I've it's been about two years now of casual Hindi study. So I was able to understand about a quarter of the Hindi and guess about half. Mhm. Um but yeah in two of the cities uh in Kolkata and Kolhapur I didn't understand the language at all.

didn't understand the language at all. Um and a lot of the people didn't even speak Hindi and right um and some people were in everywhere I visited there were a few people who were fluent in English and a few people who were halfway there. Yeah. who uh yeah, you could hold a conversation with, but if you're tired, it's a little hard to come up with conversation time, right? But in terms of getting around, yeah, the tourist areas, um, unlike the airports, there were always people fluent in English. It was easy to get around to the tourist spots. Once you got more off the beaten path, it was harder to find people that spoke English. and like um calling taxi drivers in um in Kolkata. I had to do that maybe three times and the first

that maybe three times and the first time I mean he didn't speak too much English and I think I tried speaking some Hindi on the phone and I think he spoke a little bit but you know with the phone connection and accent difference. Yeah, that's it was so hard to understand and and he's asking where he wants to pick me where I want him to pick me up and I'm trying to describe it and we're not communicating and yeah I mean that stuff I feel like even when I'm in Kolkata like it's hard right to ask explain to somebody where to pick you up from like it's my location can you please come to my location but it's like don't you see it in the app? Yeah.

like don't you see it in the app? Yeah. No, for sure. Um I mean I I get that but maybe there's ways to circumvent that. Maybe not. Like I feel like as an extreme you just cancel that, right? And if I Yeah. So my solution um every time I was leaving from a place where I had a friend who spoke English and Bengali and so I handed the phone to my friends like you talk to the taxi driver obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe somebody doesn't have a friend, they can do that with like their hotel staff. Maybe you request them to do that for you. Although if you're going somewhere and then you have to come back, I don't know what you would do there. But no, that makes sense. So

there. But no, that makes sense. So that's language. And then what about the food? Um any stomach upset? Any dodgy? Yeah, by the end. So I was trying to be careful about what I ate and uh only drinking bottled water. I'd heard that was a big deal. And um and I for the first half of the trip, my stomach was handling everything fine. What were you eating normally? Uh usually restaurant food and home cooking. Um my hosts, I think, were pretty good about cooking with bottled water. And nice. When in doubt, I would go for stuff I knew had been boiled, like tea. And uh uh twice I had street food in Kolkata. And I don't think either of those bothered my stomach.

those bothered my stomach. Um something I ate uh somewhere towards the into the trip through my stuffed cough and like street food. No, it was either fruit that had a peel on it which I felt like shouldn't have bothered me or a fairly nice restaurant. I think it was I don't know if it was the restaurant or the fruit. Where was this? It's in Kaport. But I mean, the restaurant would surprise me if I'm being honest. Yeah. Either way, should he just have enough? Yeah.

should he just have enough? Yeah. Something that day bothered me. And Gotcha. All I had that day was restaurant food and fresh fruit with a peel on it. So, I I thought I'd be safe. And uh I certainly don't blame my host. No, obviously. Yeah. Right. And then but then the next day I was at a wedding and the wedding was really cool. Uh we could probably talk more about that, but um at the wedding they had these drinks. They were um somebody called them mocktails.

were um somebody called them mocktails. They're non-alcoholic. You probably know what they are. They're salty. They were blue in color with like mint and ginger maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I don't know if there's there's probably a name for it, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. It's like fizzy, right? That's soda. Um, or did I don't think it was when I had a f I I guess it could be. Yeah. Yeah, it might have been. Um, salted drinks are weird as an American. It's weird to have sandy drinks. And uh, another host fed me a a salty yogurt drink. Oh, yeah. Virgin milk. Yeah, buttermilk is what they called it. I love it. And I another Indian fed it to me in the US, too. And

Indian fed it to me in the US, too. And both times it's like it's interesting. I'm not used to salty drinks. Yeah. Do you have you heard of kefir? Yes. It's basically like kind of that, but like the Indian kefir is way thinner. Yeah. And Yeah. I love it. It's great. It has all the benefits of probiotics. But that's a great point and not something I'd consider that as Americans, you're not exposed to anything that's salty drinks. drinks. Salty. Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. I Yeah.

Salty. Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. I Yeah. So anyway, they had this drink. It was apparently a local specialty. At the wedding, one of the wedding ceremonies, I found myself at a table with uh several middle-aged men who were co-workers of the bride's father. And I hadn't met the bride before the wedding, but that's where the open seat was. And a couple of them halfway spoke English, so we're trying to halfway communicate. They tell me they work at a they all work at a car factory together in Soapore, another town not so far away, I guess. And yeah. Anyway, the the a server comes by with a platter of these drinks. They're like, "Oh, you have to try these." And I was reluctant to drink them because I doubted they were made with bottled water. Probably not. And if they were made with the local water, who knows? And uh they're

local water, who knows? And uh they're like, "Oh, you have to try this. It's our local specialty or whatever." And so I I sipped a little bit to be polite and uh they're like, "Yeah, drink all of it. just I have it all. And so I drank all of it. Then a server comes by a few minutes later with another PL. I have another one of those. So I I went through two of those and I'm sure that didn't help my stomach from the day before. So it's the rest of the trip I was having some minor issues.

the trip I was having some minor issues. I mean it was all manageable. It was it was like nothing too crazy. Nothing too was like nothing too crazy. So um my stomach didn't like me for it. I see. Now like you probably know this or you probably saw this but most uh Indian households like almost automatically have um arro filtering so reverse osmosis. Yeah. So even though it's not technically boil obviously but again in most households I can speak for restaurants and such. I don't know what they're doing but the generally accepted norm is that you RO filter it because we've had a few struggles just historically with like bad water cola and all of that. Yeah. So, there was a big push for that and I feel like largely that has been solved. But yeah,

largely that has been solved. But yeah, I can understand how even if it's like one or two other random strains that get mixed in somehow and that are new to you, that could, you know, probably wreak havoc, right? One of my hosts mentioned reverse osmosis filter and I asked for bottle. They're like, well, it's reverse osmosis filter. Exactly. I was like, does that kill the bacteria? I don't know. It's like it does. It does for sure. Yeah. like it it removes everything. Honestly, some people hate on it because it even removes some of the helpful minerals and such. But so anyway, um so that's language and food.

anyway, um so that's language and food. Next, I want to examine people. Yes. So remove hosts cuz obviously these are your friends and they love you and you love them. So that doesn't count. Their families don't count. as a white person, what was it like to be say on any street in an Indian city? Yeah. Um, I noticed regional differences between the different places. Um, when I was in Rajasthan, uh, like Kota in particular, the people reminded me more of Midwesterners that are a little more chill and less expressive. like people are nice but not emotionally so if that makes sense. Interesting. So um yeah and in all the places I visited the people were generally friendly and um maybe even friendlier than Americans would be to a strange American. Describe

would be to a strange American. Describe friendly. Yeah. So people would strike up conversation on the street um and uh organically. Yeah. That's especially in Rajasthan. Although what would they say? Uh in one case there's a group of boys and uh I was with my friend and they saw me play they were playing basketball. No, soccer probably. And uh um they they called over to me. They're like, "Hey, who are you?" No. Uh like in Hindi? No, in English. In English who are you which I think the in my understanding is in Hindi in Hindi the direct translation phrase is more appropriate for uh addressing a stranger. Who are you?

uh addressing a stranger. Who are you? And in English we don't really it's maybe a little bit rude to say who are you to a stranger. Oh I see what you mean. Uh but I think in Hindi that's more natural I for the yeah is yeah kind of yeah uh but anyway uh when I my my friend with me uh translated in Hindi back to explains to the van hindi uh he's a friend from the US. Yeah. And this is Rago right? Yeah. Shout out. Yes. Yeah. Um there was you know there's a girl on the plane I think I think she's sitting next to me uh she's like early 20s and she didn't say anything the whole plane

she didn't say anything the whole plane flight and then once we landed she's like so where are you coming from and where are you why are you coming here and just um you in a friendly sort of way yeah okay um in a chill sort of way um and uh when I was in Udipur which is more of a touristy city. Um there are two random guys on the street who struck struck up conversation because they were trying to sell me something. They're also friendly for, you know, three or five minutes of conversation. It's like, would you like to come see my shop?

to come see my shop? But and then two other random people on the street who weren't trying to sell me anything and they just struck up conversation. There was a wedding parade going through and so Okay. one other tourist from another city in India. So like, hey, have you ever seen anything like this before? You should try to get in with the parade and go to the dinner afterwards. That's more natural here. It might not seem not natural to you, but it's normal here. You should do it. I don't know if it's normal even in India. You could get this was the China guy was from Kerala and he was visiting Udapur. Oh, that is a long way from home. Yeah. And then there were cousins of the groom in the wedding parade. The parade stopped and they passed out ice cream to everybody

they passed out ice cream to everybody on the street. They do that which I mean yeah I guess it's not there. But uh yeah they're two I think there are two teenage boys who ask start asking who are you what brings you here? What where are you from? Maybe they started with where are you from and right? Um so anyway anyway it just seemed like people were friendly and and nobody came up to you for selfies and such. Couldn't that happen? Um no but I saw two other Americans posing for selfies at um Victoria Memorial. Was it women? Two women. Yeah. I feel like if it might just be like a gender thing cuz this is something that you just hear a lot where tourists just are asked for selfies.

tourists just are asked for selfies. Yeah. So, at the wedding though, at the wedding, everybody wanted their picture with me. Outside at my friend's wedding. Yeah. The wedding parfait. I stumbled upon it. But Makes sense. Yeah. I think more people Well, no, probably more people still got pictures with the bride and the groom, but it almost seemed like more people wanted photos with me than with the bride, which makes sense cuz obviously if you're there, they know that you are somebody's friend and it's acceptably and probably wouldn't. And you also have like a nice demeanor. Yeah, it's it's like you know see not total strangers but they reception and and I didn't see a single white person in Kola outside the airport. That doesn't surprise me.

the airport. That doesn't surprise me. And uh and in Kosha, I don't think I saw a single white person. Also doesn't surprise me. In uh in Kolkata and New Delhi and um Udaur, there were a few FOA and in the airports and on the planes there were usually some too. True. And um on the topic of aggressive people, did you have any other dodgy-ish experiences? Um maybe I mean I think Kolkata is somewhat uh renowned for that. I am but people can be salesy there. That was the difference between the shopkeepers in Udipur versus Kolkata. In in Udaur they were friendly.

Kolkata. In in Udaur they were friendly. They strike up conversation for a couple minutes before asking before mentioning their business. Uh try to make friends first I guess or something. But in Kolkata they were a lot more aggressive like oh come come see my shop. I've got such fine silks and shaws. And I I went to the uh New Market district of Kolkata uh actually right after church. So I was super refreshed from church and then after spending an hour at Old Market, I was completely strange cuz I I want to go and you wanted to just kind of walk around and see. Yeah. And um and they were pissing for you in English. Yes.

were pissing for you in English. Yes. Yes. So the shopkeepers and um the taxi drivers in Delhi could uh and Udakur the sales people there were all pretty good with English. Um but yeah, the taxi drivers in Folka not so much but you know know um anyway so yeah there's so many people crowded in the market headw you know uh we just took a taxi back to my friend's place but I mean when somebody's like buy this from me spot a missed approach you have to say no about 10 times no exaggeration Like what if you just ignored them and walk? Yes, that that's the other uh but then you probably and they still follow you. Did you ever feel unsafe while in India? No. Um yeah, it wasn't like you know some big cities in the US if you're walking around Chicago at night you like

walking around Chicago at night you like feel a little unsafe like you might get mugged. Yeah. And walk for who else is on history. Okay. So, just to clarify, I don't just mean unsafe from people, but really just um like you know, you might be lost or I'm saying all possible definitions that could come under the umbrella of unsafe. Yeah, I don't think I ever felt unsafe other than feeling like I might get cheated out of my money, money, which never too much money. And with the exchange rate, you know, they if they charge me double for something, it's only five $5 to me. even. Yeah. Yeah.

only five $5 to me. even. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, but there was uh one time uh I was going I left my friend in Kolkata to go visit another friend's parents in Kolkata. Uh or um oh what was the name of the town? It was right across the river. Um is it Hava? Hava. Yes. There we go. And um the the taxi driver uh dropped me at what what he said was the right address. I get out of the car and then I look on my phone and GPS shows me it's a three-minute walk up the street and I was like, "Not bad. Not bad." I follow the GPS and it takes me down this little dark back alley and

down this little dark back alley and this is Yeah. It's after sunset. And uh if I'd been in a narrow dark alley in most American cities, I'd be a little nervous. But I in that one, you know, there's this random Indian lady who's walking down the alley. She doesn't seem scared. I'm like, "Okay, if there's a woman walking through air by herself and she's not scared, then I don't have to be asleep." But yeah. And uh it turns out GPS was taking me the wrong way that actually the taxi driver had dropped me really close to the front sidewalk to get back to their house and uh GPS was taking me around to the back of the house where there would be a fence. So then I couldn't get to. So anyway, my

then I couldn't get to. So anyway, my friend's dad calls me. He's not quite fluent in English. She's like, "Where are you?" And I'm like, "Uh, I'm I'm Glattus." She's like, "What do you see?" I'm like, "Uh, that's actually such a like, you know, Indian starter pack question where you're trying to give somebody directions. You're like, "Tell me what you see." And then you use that to direct them to you. I was trying to describe what I saw around, but they like, "I'll meet you back on the main street in front of the bank in 3 minutes." I go death smart. Yeah. And uh anyway, that's that's how he found me.

anyway, that's that's how he found me. But makes sense. Anyway, that was a one of the most uh interesting experiences or funniest experiences walking down this dark back alley of Haurab by myself. Yeah, I don't think I've done that. I might have, but yeah, it's it's been too hard to remember. Um and then from from there what what were your impressions just on the um sites to see that are there in India? Like just purely from a tourist perspective. Yeah. Would you recommend uh and I know you're pretty well travel like you've been to other places you've been to China. I know you've been to Europe here and there but where where would you put your overall tourism experience in India versus you know other destinations that exist in the world for Americans? Yeah.

world for Americans? Yeah. Um I haven't been outside the US too much. Well, I've been to Beijing and London and Costa Rica. So, um let's see. In Kolkata, there was a fair amount of stuff to do. Museums, it's it's a major cultural center. I guess it there is definitely the Victoria Memorial was impressive. Seemed like something out of Washington DC or something. I, you know, compare it to the Lincoln Memorial probably or something like that. Um, uh, I felt like the museums were maybe a little more modest or more rundown than the just in Kolkata or other museums. Um, I might have only gone to museums in Kolkata. Okay. Um so um yeah like compared to Washington DC for example the museums in Kolkata weren't as impressive. I still learned some stuff about local history and

some stuff about local history and stuff. I learned about the uh Indian independence movement there. Um, yeah, it seems like a lot of the nice buildings in Kolkata were built 50 or 100 years ago and and weren't quite as well maintained since then. Maybe I don't know if Yeah. Yeah. as a local how you how you feel about that statement. But I mean, I actually I don't honestly know how you would maintain it outside of obviously like cleaning, repainting it, stuff like that. Yeah. Is that what you were referring to? Maybe. Yeah.

you were referring to? Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you pass this building on the street. Looks like it must have been this nice hotel at some point, but it's falling apart and abandoned and Yeah. So, that's a great thing and I've wondered about this, but it is my impression has been like it's not too dissimilar from some places in like Europe and such. Yeah. Which are also really old. I mean, Baltimore for example, you could see some of or even St. St. Yeah. So just feel generally US most apples to apples because old stuff in Europe or sorry old stuff in US is what 200 years old right Europe is actually old old India is probably older so I find that to be a little bit more apples to apples and I've never been to Europe but friends that I've talked to that

but friends that I've talked to that have have said that it's really not that different. What makes it aesthetically different is just kind of how much you know as you said how well-maintained it is that kind of how much like trash is it that's it I feel like if you just kind of removed all the trash from India we are basically Europe at this point okay again that's like my makebelieve world having only spent half a day in London as my only experience of Europe I that's probably a fair comparison yeah and I'm sure even there's parts of London that are new and that have been made into arcs and such and Kolkata has those as well. I don't know if you got to go to Salt Lake or Yeah. So these are

to go to Salt Lake or Yeah. So these are imagine like uh they added on these parks much later. Were there a lot of uh hospitals in that area? There are so like drove through. Yeah. Yeah. And actually the airport is in that areaish. So they use the exact US block model. So we've divided into blocks A B CDE E. Each block has its stuff. stuff. And the only thing is they could only do that because they got the chance to build that. Right. Kolkata itself is sold that the only way to actually fix stuff is to like destroy people's homes.

stuff is to like destroy people's homes. Okay. There's just no other way to Yeah. Cuz I know in the US most cities were built after a lot of cities were built after the invention of cars, right? At least the western cities. So I mean the roads were designed for cars for us. Exactly. Yep. It was uh in Budakpur it was really obvious there's this reasonably big cork of the city. You could walk the whole thing. So maybe a couple miles in size or a few kilometers um where there's no roads that cars can pass through. Interesting.

that cars can pass through. Interesting. And uh probably just limited to motorcycles or the auto rickshaws or walking. But then there's this ring road all around that. And so if you're trying to get from here to here, your driver takes you all the way around the circumference. circumference. And uh anyway, uh so and it takes 45 minutes with the traffic and you probably could walk to 45 minutes, but anyway. Yeah, that's fair. Um so yeah, that was that was interesting. Um in terms in terms of tourism in Udipur, it was really cool. the forts and the palaces. Um I really haven't been okay. So when I first got into Udaur coming through the outskirts it just looked the same as Kota or Delhi. It's like just all these little shops crowded together and some nice and some not as

together and some nice and some not as nice buildings that they're in and crowded streets with trash on the ground, whatever. But then once I actually got into the heart of the city where all the palaces and forts are, it had a a magical charm to it, especially at sunset, um I almost didn't go on the boat tour cuz I'm like, you know, I I've I've been on boats before, but I got the suns I did the sunset boat tour because my friend highly recommended it. Um and uh and once I was out on the I was like, "Oh, this is magical." Seeing all the forts with the sunset lighting was super cool and peaceful to be out on the lake.

cool and peaceful to be out on the lake. And um and yeah, the rooftop dining was cool. Hey, Heidi. Oh, did you draw that? Wow, that's actually pretty good. Staying in the lines. You stayed in the lines pretty well. well. Sure. Do Do you want to show that to the camera? camera? Ivy don't show show your work to the camera. Look, what's the name of this dog? Um, Rubble. Rubble. Good job, Iy. I She bites Paw Patrol. All our kids like Paw Patrol. Yeah, it's um Yeah. So, next I want to examine how you felt in terms of like say you're walking around, you know, our neighborhood here or say you're any in any other American city.

you're any in any other American city. How much did you miss the I'll just use the word lack of pollution but that would include sound pollution just like from Hong Kong as such um air pollution and also obviously like in the ground just how much you know trash and such there is like for you as somebody that probably doesn't see as much of that how big of an impression did that make in your mind towards this new or this host country that you were uh traveling too.

country that you were uh traveling too. Yeah. Um the air pollution stood out to me the most although I did definitely notice all three aspects that you mentioned. Um but yeah, the air pollution uh I think part of it's the time of the year um that in December it's worse than usual but um yeah in both Delhi and Kolkata the pollution was just really bad and I wore a mask about a quarter of the time and but nobody else was wearing masks so I felt a little silly wearing one and probably should have worn one anyway but um yeah and then the noise pollution. I noticed noticed um even um even in the host houses I was staying in, you could still hear people talking outside, still hear cars. Um and part of the Sorry. No, you're good. No way. Uh I

Sorry. No, you're good. No way. Uh I think I guess there's a lot of agricultural burning, putting smoke into the air and whatever puts smoke into the air in cities. Cars, factories. Yeah, somebody told me maybe even the cooking, the cooking over open flames would maybe affect pollution. I don't know. Um, something I read was that apparently even the cars don't matter. The the real thing that does the most damage is just factory emissions. Okay, those are the There was one power plant they saw in one city that was just bulging tons of smoke into the air. Was it like black?

smoke into the air. Was it like black? Uh yeah, it was pretty dark smoke. It's funny you mentioned that because I've seen that here as well, but somehow here the smoke is white. There's uh the government regulates the emissions and makes them put some kind of filter system on the on the smoke coming out of the power plants and factories here, right? But um but yeah, so yeah, continuing with so the noise pollution um yeah, I could hear noise most of the time and it didn't really bother me.

time and it didn't really bother me. Although I think there were one or two times I was falling asleep and even in the host house I can hear the street noise outside or whatever. Uh probably jet lag didn't help. If I wasn't jetlagged, I would have fallen asleep easier. But yeah, but anyway, you were hitting some Yeah, that's that. Um, and it helped me understand high-rise apartments that I stayed in a high-rise apartment four nights, I think, or three nights. And I realized, oh, once you're up on like whatever, the 32nd floor, you know, they're the street.

know, they're the street. Maybe that's why people like high-rise powers. powers. Yeah, you could see this huge sea of pastel buildings. square rectangular pastel colored buildings of Kolkata disappearing into the smog. Yeah, I don't picture. Yeah, that leaves all the ground stuff. The Yeah, there was a lot of trash on the road that uh I'm not used to seeing coming from America. I don't know. You can walk around it, I guess, but I'm a small town guy. I uh living in a city with 120,000 people I feel like is a little too big for my comfort. But after visiting India, it helps me realize I still live in a quiet city and it's still spacious.

in a quiet city and it's still spacious. It's the buildings are just compact and clustered together as they were in the Indian cities. Yeah. Um it why do you think that is like what do you think causes that type of like behavior? Like I guess just for your tape I know there's no right answer but part of it is poverty just there are so many people living in poverty in Kolkata in particular that I mean where do they put their trash if they don't have a house order? I don't know. Yeah. And that's fair, but yeah, I mean that's the thing I I have trouble wrapping my head around because a lot of them do have houses anyway. Yeah.

them do have houses anyway. Yeah. Ben uh at one point a a hired driver who was driving me from Kosha to Udipur is like a 5h hour road trip with me and a guy who didn't speak English uh but me tried to communicate some in Hindi. But anyway, we stop at a little roadside stand that's selling snacks and chai. And they service chai and paper cups.

And they service chai and paper cups. And when we're done eating, he he shows me, you just throw it on the ground. They're all these little paper cups and other trash strewing the I think it was gravel ground and the uh the little gravel kind of parking slashd area in front of the stall. And uh that's so I just like throw mine on the ground. So, I guess part of it's just a bigger cultural concept of philanthropy with your trash. Um, I I don't really know the answer of why. Yeah. Which is fair.

the answer of why. Yeah. Which is fair. And that makes me think so if if that person was seated here, right? And if they asked us, why can't I do that? I actually have I've thought about that before and if I'm being super honest, I wouldn't know what to tell them. Sorry. Like I know why, but do you keep our city clean is what an American would say. It's prettier. I don't know.

say. It's prettier. I don't know. Screw our city beautiful. I'm agreeing. Yeah, I'm just trying to It's just something that I've thought about a lot and I never really I haven't actually gotten anywhere. I think also part of it is just um struggle to survive and make a living is so much tighter in India. I felt like yeah that's in here that's definitely val Americans we feel like we're struggling to make ends meet but that's with a a nice house or even if it even if we feel it's small a lot of Indians would consider it as large and cons I I didn't realize carpet was a luxury until visiting India and like even the upper middle class houses don't have much

middle class houses don't have much carpet and it's uh I think part of it is the humidity control and climate control which marble works best. But yeah, our marble is cold in summers and kind of isish okayish winters. So mostly there are no winters and even the uh the middle class class the I think I was staying in some of the nicer houses and most of them had a permanently open window at least in the bathroom sometimes in another room of the house.

sometimes in another room of the house. Yeah. And you know, it's letting the smoke the smog into the house for one thing. And uh but right and uh when it doesn't get below 60 Fahrenheit in the winter, you don't have to have insulation heating. Yeah. I can understand a window AC unit and fans in the summertime, but Uhhuh. Yeah. But what do you do where here where it gets down to - 10 F as you win everything.

down to - 10 F as you win everything. Yeah. Got to have everything in. So heated. Yeah. And then you can have carpet cuz you know Yeah. Nice warm. Correct. It's easy to control the climate in the house, right? Um, so some of that difference I think is just the climate that if you're closer to the you don't have to have as much insulation for winter time and in the northern climates you do and that affects the housing standards I guess probably sometime in there. Anyway, if you're if you're struggling to survive, struggling to make ends meet, figuring out what to do with your trash is the least of your concerns, I guess. Yeah. That's true.

concerns, I guess. Yeah. That's true. And I I think back to my own journey and it's funny cuz I definitely had the luxury or privilege of a good education my whole life. And yet it took me up until the point where I was in sophomore year, so second year of my undergrad, where I was just hanging out with a friend and I had a bag of chips and I was about to throw that just to the groundh just because and it's shocking for me to look back now. But then my friend was like, "Hey, what are you doing?" And I was like, "Nothing." Yeah.

doing?" And I was like, "Nothing." Yeah. Like I looked at him all weird. And I remember and I'll never forget this, but he took the bag from me. He didn't like, you know, reprimand me or lecture me or anything. He just took my empty chips bag from me and he put it in his like backpack. Do you know like where there's a place where you put uh your water bottle? He just put it there. And like just that simple act I feel like just completely you know opened the portal to this whole new universe for me where I was like what incentive does he have for doing this like nobody's watching I'm just some guy he's not trying to impress me obviously and yet it is important for him to be doing this and shout out Nikl

him to be doing this and shout out Nikl Naral that's his name yeah he's in Germany now so he's doing great and but anyway yeah I just I figured that might be um something out there If you're listening and if you ever wonder why should you do this? I don't know. Maybe just that what Benny said earlier that it's your city. If you're not going to keep it clean, who is? Yeah. And you don't have to worry about keeping it clean, but at least don't destroy it for others. Either way, um what were some other quirks that you saw in the houses that are crumb? The one big difference was having um paid house helpers like um I I think yeah the one place I visited I think had four full-time people a cook a housekeeper and then two people taking care of the elderly grandmother a a day shift and night

grandmother a a day shift and night shift person I guess and um uh in America that'd be super expensive to pay that we're full-time salaries But But um some my host was explaining to me when I I remarked on it uh he told me that the cost the average salary is so cheap the the cost of labor uh the cost of low skill labor is so much cheaper than in the US. I think he was saying 60 cents an hour is what I calculated uh based on the hours worked in the currency conversion. Oh, I mean in America maybe you could pay an illegal immigrant $6 an hour somewhere, right? Exactly. But 60 cents an hour and so that explains why food was so cheap and uh you know the auto rickshaw rides

and uh you know the auto rickshaw rides were super cheap and anything that involved manual labor was super cheap, right? Um Yeah. And it cuts both ways, right? Because on the one hand you feel you feel worried that they're not getting paid enough but on the other hand they're getting paid something. Yeah. Right. So like I don't know if that's them. So and it's just free markets right? Helps them get a job. So exactly. And yeah I feel like again free markets uh force you to work with whatever the running rate is and if it was should have been higher it would have been higher. Yeah. So yeah, I mean obvious but no all of those are very prudent observations for sure. Tell me a little bit about the spirituality that you felt or maybe didn't feel within but that you saw in the people like the people generally. Yes, it it seemed like

people generally. Yes, it it seemed like a very religious people. I was impressed at the overall religiosity. It seemed like even the non-religious people still went to the temple stood gray. Maybe I was misreading some people, but uh one or two of my hosts that I didn't get the impression they were too uh religious, they were going to the temples to pray. And the uh tourist sites, the biggest tourist sites in each city were the temples. It seemed like that's true. And uh it's funny that you call them tourist sites because most of the tourism is by people from India. Yeah. that are really religious that like to see those temples. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if tourism is exactly the right word, but but no, I I see like religious tourism.

but no, I I see like religious tourism. Yeah. Yeah. Pilgrimages or whatever, right? And um but yeah and then like all the it seemed like every business had the name of a Hindu god in the name and every truck had uh some something religious a Hindu god's name or something like J Mati right um and just like there's a mural spray painted on a wall in Udipur on a random street that says Jai Shri Ram I think or maybe that was actually on the side of a a temple. It it might have actually been the side of a little temple that was spray painted with that and which it would make sense. Sidewalk chalkings in Kolkata of uh Shiva

Kolkata of uh Shiva and um maybe some pockets of India were more religious than others. But um it seemed like maybe at the wedding in uh Kohapur um people were saying Jai Shri Ram as a goodbye. Oh which translates to hey Lord Rome I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I thought that the Midwest America and Southeast America were were uh saturated Christian cultures, religiously saturated cultures. But then going to India takes religious saturation to a whole new level. Really?

saturation to a whole new level. Really? Uh every little town you pass through on the train, you see the the temple spire, which maybe going through the US, you'd see uh church spires and every Oh, very I don't know. Just Mhm. How in America, religion and commerce are separate. The the businesses don't have religious names. that truck stop stuff that's that's the commerce and religion seems to be I mean even the names right yeah we have so many friends literally called da oh yeah every yeah I think my understanding is most of my Indian friends are named after gods yeah and just I feel like that I'd never really actually thought about it from this lens but you're 100% right in that it almost seeps through every aspect of life, you know, name, business, right? Whatever the case might

business, right? Whatever the case might be. Um, even when you're so like apartment buildings also have names. I guess they do here as well, but here they would be like lake view apartments over there would be probably, you know, some god. Okay. Whatever nas, which is which just means house. Yeah. And uh in Kota, I visited the riverfront and I it was I was uh very impressed by the Kocha riverfront. It's a neon big tourist attraction there and not a lot of tourists yet, but they've they're set up for it's it's uh underrated right now.

for it's it's uh underrated right now. Interesting. Um but kind of the climax after walking two miles of palace facads, which was overwhelming in itself. The climax is this huge statue of a goddess uh Masha Chumbo the river goddess goddess um like 30 foot tall statue uh with a fountain pouring out of a she has like a pot or something in her hands that's pouring water in right um interesting so yeah anyway just generally what was your take on for lack of a better term um Hinduism aesthetics right so the equivalent for that obviously for Christianity would be uh you know like pristine churches uh that are really clean um community cuz the old town kind of gathers every pande so there at

so there at least I I feel like you don't you guys it is a strong social connection still today for people who are involved in churches but the majority of Americans don't go to church anymore no that's totally fits yeah but yeah the small towns in the old days yes as everybody coming together on Sunday mornings. But from a similar lens, yeah, for Hinduism, what were some of maybe just adjectives that came to mind or just generally what did you feel? Yeah, the temples were beautiful. The um yeah, some of the statues of the gods were beautiful. Some were uh I don't know. Uh I don't know if uh if it would offend anyone to say a little creepy but yeah because it then knew and you Yeah.

yeah because it then knew and you Yeah. I've eaten slightly with snakes coming out of that for example. Yeah. Oh and but uh anyway uh yeah I don't want to bash Hinduism or anything. No no yeah obviously and but as no now you're not doing that. Yeah, it seemed um it seemed like Hinduism was a lot more about trying to win favor from gods or appease gods. uh a lot more impersonal whereas in Christianity there's a lot more emphasis on a personal relationship with God that interesting where we're actually speaking directly to God and he hears us not because of what we're doing but because of his grace and because of uh the works of the Lord Jesus. Yeah. And uh so but yeah, compared with my experience on Sunday mornings of gathering with uh people in community, the same people every week to praise God

the same people every week to praise God together and listen to teaching about God together versus going to the Ganga Arty in Quieta and seeing a bunch of strangers who've just come together on this particular evening. Uhhuh. uh watching the professionals perform the rituals and yeah so much more image focused of the smoke and the sensors and the idols all worshiping a river is like it's just so different absolutely yeah and obviously without the context that they are still doing similar rituals in their homes as well if you didn't see that but yeah I can understand you for yeah every home have a shrine Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So like I think that's the way obviously and it's interesting right compared to like a temple separately and then the bomb separately. Yeah. I can see how if

separately. Yeah. I can see how if you're just uh you know looking at your experience of temple it can feel that you know these are just kind of like a almost um like you're going to watch a serious stream or something right. You're not actually involved. Yeah. But it's usually supposed to serve as a supplement. actually anything cuz all of them are probably uh you know doing sun rituals at home. Yeah. But yeah so if if an American person currently watching this is planning off is planning on going to India first of all would you generally overall recommend it for most Americans or yeah or not or not? Yeah it was a really great experience. I'm glad I went. It was a lot of fun.

went. It was a lot of fun. Um, and yeah, it was great to be with local hosts. That was a great way to do it. Um, because they really take care of you. Two different ones mentioned to me. We have a phrase guest is gone. That's you treat you treat the guest as well as you treat God. I'm like, I not sure I deserve that. No, that is dehava is the in like Sanskrit the phrase where that comes from. Yeah. Right. So that's no that's totally legit. Yeah. But you're recommending um having over there for a for the best. Yeah. So one thing I would say to Americans wanting to visit India is is uh maybe keep it to a week or I mean you

uh maybe keep it to a week or I mean you could stay longer and just experience a longer trip. But I maybe not try to do as fast-paced of a trip as I did. Although I don't regret it. I'm glad I saw everything and but you're just saying maybe there was next time I go to India it'll just be for one week and try to limit it to just a couple of cities.

to limit it to just a couple of cities. Yeah. I don't know. I bet you know as as I have so many Indian friends and they move back that's going to be a struggle. I'll be like I want to see so and so and so and so. Oh we'll see. And but I want to visit five cities. Yeah. And they will insist the self. Maybe I'll end up having to take two each. Yeah. Whatever, but we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. And to close out, um, three things that every American going must do or know. Okay.

American going must do or know. Okay. Um, one thing to know was the bathrooms. Uh, I saw toilet paper a couple of places, but everywhere it was the sprayer, and I'd never used one before, but but I quickly grew to appreciate it. Yeah. I by the end of the trip, I liked it more than toilet paper. really. But, you know, if you're an American traveling, you should bring toilet paper. And uh the showers also there wasn't reliable hot water. And uh half the time my showers were from a a bucket with a little pincher. They call Yeah.

with a little pincher. They call Yeah. You call it a mug. We'd call it a measuring cup, but a two cup measuring cup or something. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yes. Um but yeah, you just draw the hot warm water and pour it out of yourself. So, uh, so that was one thing to watch out for. I guess the mosquitoes at certain times of the year, there were even mosquitoes in December, but, um, my first host was like, "Yeah, just leave the fan running all night." And that'll keeps the mosquitoes off. He's like, "Okay." And there's also like devices, right? The He showed me the mosquito also. Oh, and do you have the physical zapper? Yeah. So, yeah. So you mentioned um so the bathrooms mosquitoes. Um what's the third and last thing that one? Uh let's see what the top one would

one? Uh let's see what the top one would be. Uh one thing that comes to mind is use Uber to book the cabs that's more reliable or the uh is it yatiatri? Is that what it's called? Yatriati. Yeah. Yatriati. Yeah. Just use the app to book the driver so you know the price and they can't overcharge you. But But yeah. Oh, one other thing I'd say is just buy random things while you're there. I bought a new pair of shoes uh for $20. Uh I think I got two pairs of shoes for $40 or something. Yeah. Uh and then I bought my prescription glasses.

then I bought my prescription glasses. That's right. Free. Yeah. Lensar. I got two pairs of prescription glasses for the equivalent of $40. Right. And if you had free eyes, Zam tight end. And if you had time, you could have gotten like old dentists and tires. Yeah, somebody told me I should get my wizard teeth removed trout. I was like, I don't want to be in pain the whole time. But you would probably save thousands of dollars. If somebody decided to do that, this is not advice. And then um Oh, one really big thing. Sorry, this is not a top three list anymore. That's fine. um was uh so many places in India didn't take credit card they have UPI past credit card UPI pay by phone and I never got that set up

that set up and so I was just limited to cash and ATMs and that's sort of surprising because it's oh you just you need a oh I see what you I need an Indian bank account I think that's right that's right and an Indian phone number okay yeah So, so I was just going based on cash. Two times I ran out of cash and had to go to an ATM. Well, although Google Pay, right? I wouldn't Google Google Pay, I don't know. Maybe it would have worked. Yeah, cuz I feel like Google Play pay is universal. So, if you had your dollars loaded, I feel like it would have converted and everybody accepts Google Pay. I don't Maybe somebody can, you know, comment below.

somebody can, you know, comment below. But yeah. Um, and then phone service was another thing that actually surprised me that my Xfinity mobile when I landed in India, I get a text saying international calling is 10 cents a minute and 50 cents a megabyte for data or something. I was like, uh, data charge is going to add up fast, but I can send a few texts across the world for 10 cents each.

across the world for 10 cents each. Yeah, absolutely. But a friend of mine had loaned me his second phone. He had two, one set up for India and one set up for the US. So he baned me my Indian phone for his Indian phone for the trip. Yeah. And that was super helpful. Internet is really good, right? Everybody, every player, data coverage everywhere, I think. Yeah. And it's like almost 5G also. I guess I would say my other favorite thing I haven't mentioned yet was the food. The food was great. It was completely different from one state to the next, but all of it was really good. And for context, you are somebody

good. And for context, you are somebody that knows Indian. I've had a lot of Indian food in the US and still half or more of what I had over there was completely new. Yeah. Would you say the, you know, chicken tikka butter masala over there is the same as the one here? I don't think I even saw a butter chicken over there. I'm sure the half platter chicken in places. They do. But uh yeah, but it's just completely I spent five or six days with no meat the at the beginning of the trip and I didn't even miss Rajasthan is yes so good right with all the dolls right right it was all really good so anyway great food kind people glad I went well thanks so much for taking the time and we hope

so much for taking the time and we hope to see you back as hopefully this time you will you know be able to iron iron out some of the kinks that did creep up this time. And until then, um, thank you so much for, you know, taking the time here today. Yes, thanks for having me. That brings us to the end of that episode with Benny. I hope you enjoyed his experiences as much as I did. Thank you all for sharing these experiences with those that continue to benefit from them. If you would like to support me, the easiest way to do that is by subscribing on YouTube and giving me up to a fivestar rating on Spotify or any of your favorite podcast apps. Something that goes a long way here is if you by

that goes a long way here is if you by word of mouth tell your friends and families about your new favorite podcast. Catch you all in the next one. New episodes every Wednesday. I think we've been all that place. Yeah. Well, you can go upstairs and wait for them. Watch out the window. See if I come.