How to (Move To &) Live in France - w/ Devendra

yeah so how does that look like so how difficult or easy is it to get a job um what are your prospects like what are some of your peers doing in terms of um how much money they make Etc I'm just trying to inform somebody that might be considering your career track for themselves I think uh one of the biggest one here in France specifically is also the language barrier which is so what are some things that you struggle with or you have struggled with maybe in the past or currently do um about France or about you know living in France and your life in France and then is there such a thing as um a work visa what prompts this question was you said you're limited to 20% of the jobs because of

limited to 20% of the jobs because of your probable non Proficiency in French so in the US what shrinks the net a little bit is companies that are willing to sponsor International students so is there such a criteria in France this question here what is the one piece of advice that you would give to any person that's trying to move to France for we'll stick to studies for now um French people are jerks like they're just not you know friendly they're rude and kind of stuck up almost what has been your experience with that can you attest to that stereotype being true or is that just a madeup thing Welcome to The Ready Set do podcast where we learn from journeys of not experts who are just two steps ahead of of us I'm Naman Pandi and in this episode my guest is dendra chaj dendra has been

my guest is dendra chaj dendra has been working and living in France for the past 5 years or so having moved there to complete his Global Management program from SP Jan Institute of Management and research We Begin by going over the rather serendipitous turn of events that saw dindra move to Paris for his degree we then Deep dive into the things that he loves the most and the things that he loves to hate the most about France from his many years of living there we go with the numerous challenges one can naturally expect to face when considering a move to France or really any new country for that matter and also some workarounds for each including a particularly helpful section around language barriers and how one can overcome them indeed that section is

overcome them indeed that section is actually helpful to anyone trying to learn any language not just French from there we move on to a comparison of academics in B schools in India versus those in France that finishes off the section on dinger's experiences at the iset School of Management the latter half of the discussion focuses on how one can go about building a career in France we go over the various type of work visas how challenging or not it is to get a job and really all the intricacies one should be aware of before finalizing their decision to move to France for higher studies finally they the share some striking parallels about life in Europe versus life in India culminating our discussion with what I felt were extremely relevant in sights for anyone planning to approve their life and move to a new country

their life and move to a new country this discussion is for anyone who's interested in moving to France for a higher degree and for building their career there or anyone who is interested in learning what it's like to live in one of the most famous beautiful and metropolitan cities in the world in keeping with our theme of learning from someone that's just two steps ahead of us instead of an expert I'd like to emphasize that this discussion centers on dinger's journey through college and Beyond and any views expressed are a direct consequence of his own lived experiences in France my goal is for anyone considering a career oriented move to be able to plan ahead to expect what their life may look like at least from the perspective of moving to Europe so now my friends without any further

so now my friends without any further Ado my discussion with dendra welcome thank you noan uh how are you I'm doing well I want to take a moment to acknowledge those two kids sat in the third row in grade six section e in mempa Foundation higher Secondary School a few years ago and I just want to call out that we've come a few ways from home with that said um yeah what brought you to France how did you end up living in France France yeah uh thank you so much Naman for having me and as you said like we go back a Long Way to the viewers I think we've been friends for like 18 or 19

we've been friends for like 18 or 19 years now and it's good to see you do so well start this podcast in us and yeah so talking about my own Journey how I came to France was firstly it was a matter of chance I never it was not one of my dreams like many people had that you know I would really want to go to France or live in Paris I I could relate it to your earlier podcast with Anand where you know he said like he gave cat and then he gave the cat again because he didn't score what he was expecting to and he didn't get the calls from the top MBA top B schools that he wanted to and

MBA top B schools that he wanted to and he gave it again and got the desired result in my case it's it's same to an extent but actually it's like at the second part of it it doesn't work out for me so I don't actually end up getting the best B schools that I wanted to because of some personal reasons that happened in the second year of my cat but well incidentally even that turned out to be pretty well in life because that brought me to France and the life and the career that I have here today and um yeah this like for the viewers this can be one of the things in an example where you know when you fail and sometimes you even fail for the second time even that is not the end and sometime that can lead to lead you to an

sometime that can lead to lead you to an unexpected outcome which can actually be really good for you so yeah I came here because of spj Institute of Management research in Mumbai and they had affiliations with a few schools in the US a few schools in Europe be France Netherlands and Germany okay and uh France was actually my second preference my first preference was the US just like you but the fees were so high even after like 80% scholarship like the feast was unmanageable and I would have to like kind of just to take out a loan I would have to put my house as collateral which I didn't want to do so just PR that sounds pretty intimidating I would like

sounds pretty intimidating I would like yeah absolutely and uh and that's when France was my second option I got a decent scholarship through P J here as well and yeah that just brought me to a new place with like new culture new language and it's been an amazing ride so far yeah awesome so on that note when you were at spj is that so the cohort that gets to go out to these International colleges is that open to every student that goes to SPG or is that like a Selected Few you need to opt for it how does that work yeah so at SPG you know what happens is there's the course that I did was called Global Management program it's not the regular

Management program it's not the regular pgdm course this also takes like cat scores uh GMAT scores and all other Indian uh B School exam exams that you can give can let you to this course and uh so yeah this particular course everyone is it's it's designed in a way that you do part of your MBA in Mumbai in India and then you choose a partner school and finish your MBA there and get your degree there so uh so at my during my time they had like two partner schools in the US and three OD schools in Europe now I know they have like multiple they have even more Partners in the US and UK and Europe and they are doing pretty well with the course and um yeah I think so whoever all all that

yeah I think so whoever all all that there were 80 people in my class everyone either went to the US or Europe so and yeah I happen to come to France awesome so how long have you been in France at this point and for time stamp purposes we're in May 2024 and this is for you know whoever's listening maybe like a couple years later but yeah um how long have you been in France yeah it's been 5 and a half years for me now that's a long time so I I came here in January 2019 I enrolled in this course in 2018 mid year and did my first leg of 7 months in Mumbai and then 2019 January I came here although having said that I would still give it a cumulative 4 and a

would still give it a cumulative 4 and a half years because one year out of this 5 and a half years I've been in India mainly because of covid I was there for 8 nine months at a stretch during that time and I keep going back quite frequently so yeah like cumulative you would give it a 4 and a half years but yeah it's been 5 and a half years since I first came to France yeah yeah I know we'll be digging into this a little bit later here but I do think it's one of the biggest advantages of being you know in Europe is that especially as an Indian because it's it feels that much lesser the amount of friction or the

lesser the amount of friction or the time I guess to go home versus you know say a us which is literally the other side of the world and it shouldn't be a factor for any rational person but I know that yeah like something that's prevented me from going back more often than I would have wanted to is that for sure so so um on that same note in your five and a half years in France what are some of your most absolute favorite things about living in France I think if I start with my most absolute favorite things that would come down to the basics so when I keep going to India I

basics so when I keep going to India I always complain of the basics which is again people don't take it too nicely oh yeah You' have come from like outside you say this but what I really like here is firstly the fresh air that you can breathe when you go out for a walk like I'm comparing all this to India because that's where where we have grown up that's where we have lived most of our life makes sense yeah it makes perfect sense to do that yeah and like you know the basic differences that I can feel in the quality of water in the quality of air that's like the top thing for me like you can easily go out for a walk here just to clear your mind in India

here just to clear your mind in India it's a whole big task you know there's pollution there's like heat there's like no particular walkways that you can go to here you have good Parks beautiful Park just near my home there's like just 600 M if you walk you walk into a big like organized Jungle of sorts where you see animals where you can like you know just clear your mind with a walk in the nature so that is that being one and um I think secondly I feel Paris is a very beautiful city just being around the city you always feel that so I always keep telling that to my friends that when I go out to travel from Europe there's always when you come back from a

there's always when you come back from a travel there's a sinking feeling of that yeah the trip has ended but the beauty of Paris is that when you come back you actually feel like you know that like I still come back to the most beautiful city in the world so that feeling is it's very unique to Paris I would say compared to all other cities that um like you you go out you see the most beautiful places and then you are coming back to still the most beautiful city in the world and uh and some other things that I would say would be I think the ease of travel around Europe so I think Europe as in whole it's very connected the flights are very cheap if

connected the flights are very cheap if you like you can take the trains you can take I can take a bus to Amsterdam in like and it will get me to am I'm in 6 hours and uh like yeah it's very easy to travel in Europe they're not people like you you have a sense of Freedom here which allows you to do what you really want to do like the society doesn't play a big role in your decision making in your time um you don't have to justify anything to anyone you can do whatever you want to do and uh yeah I think there's a good work life balance overall in Europe like it's not the hustle culture that you see so much in India

culture that you see so much in India and even in the US but from what I've heard yeah yeah like Europe is more in that sense like a ideal place for what you call work life balance rather at sometimes in France I would say it's more of like life life balance in um in Europe actually even in companies if you see it's like people take so long like the breaks are like 2 hours like you start late you finish early so these kind of perks uh you have longer vacations in your uh yearly calendars you can take 50 days off cumulatively in a year which is very unique to uh European kind of work life and yeah I think overall it's a good place to be it's like you have a mix of good like different kind of cultures within like

different kind of cultures within like kind of like India you can explore different languages different food different cultures in like very short span of travel yeah those are some things which I really love about living here in France absolutely and I guess so I work with some European counterparts at at my company and it's really funny that anytime summer comes around if you try to book any person in Europe's calendar like they're just out of office for two months straight it feels like all of you know June July August is they're like nobody's in office they're just all you know chilling and not working for sure but really great call outs there dendra I think the one thing I want to drill down on a little bit is um just trying to understand so your first point around you know say parks

first point around you know say parks and such you know being able to go out for a walk Etc um I know for instance um in Kolkata we have um Lake Gardens for example you know there's like a lake there's a little park around it so am I understanding correctly that you're trying to say that if Kolkata had multiple Lake Gardens it would be maybe closer in your head than uh closer in your head to France than it is currently is that kind of what you are getting at or is it a whole different level Al together I mean it's a part of it I would say it's not all but definitely like India could actually use with some more public free spaces where you could

more public free spaces where you could just walk you could do your own activity but having said that there's other issues as well like the heat like you know the temperature the weather around here it's more conducive to going out for a walk compared to what a Kolkata would give you in most parts of the year of course there are Pleasant times where you can do that but having said that yes and and I think pollution for that matter even if you make more green spaces the air quality should be such that when you're going out for the walk you're getting the full benefit of it which I think here if you go in some places especially if you don't crowd exactly inside the city the pollution levels are pretty low so in that matter

levels are pretty low so in that matter you know for example in India sometimes you have aqis of above 300 and it's normal to people they don't even see a difference till someone from outside goes and shows them that you are living in very high level of pollutions in France sometimes when the aqi goes to 18 to 20 they just ban the cars for the whole of the week sometimes a weekend which is like one sometimes 12th 110th of what India is already surviving and it's normal for them so just a slight increase in aqi at around 20 levels it's an it's an alarming state for like France but in India we live with it like it's normal so yeah part of it it would solve the problem having more parks and

solve the problem having more parks and stuff but overall yeah there's a mix of things which need to be go hand that makes sense yeah I'm notable takeaways from that I like how I say Kata but you said Kolkata I'm not sure where that comes from but it's just something I noticed that's very helpful perspective um with that I kind of want to jump to now what are some things obviously you know it's not all sunshine and roses so what are some things that you struggled with or you have struggled with maybe in the past or currently do um about France or about you know living in France and your life in France yeah I think on in this note I would like to start with the

this note I would like to start with the most obvious point for most Indians that is food so like growing I thought you were going to say loneliness I thought that would be the most obvious point but I think it's funny you rank food above even loneliness I think be it some other people like some other National people they would probably rank all of this first but being an Indian I think food is the first thing that comes to mind ask any of my friends here and having said that French cuisine is like noted to be one of the best cuisines in the world so it's not like food is a problem here in general but when you come to from countries like India which where you like you know you're used to a pallet of like spices in your food where

pallet of like spices in your food where you like it's it said that Indian food touches the like most corners of your tongue like all the all the different taste buds that you have are only touched by Indian food compared to our other food so even the lack of good Indian food in France is one of the biggest problems because we are used yeah people hardly even put salt and pepper so like you you would go out to restaurants and you would see me putting all the salt from the Shaker into my food and uh but yeah I think the first thing would be food second would I would say would be the lack of domestic help I think having again it it comes from where we have come from like we get everything done uh in India without with

everything done uh in India without with support and you have your families you have people to help you around for everything you do here you you are on your own like there's no one coming to my house till I call anyone so like all your you run your own errands you do your laundry you do your you're not used to cooking three meals in a day apart like with your work with your you know Leisure and everything so that kind of an effort and um around loneliness at the point that you made at the start I think that's one of the biggest problems and I think I didn't state it as my first struggle because I think I could find ways to navigate that problem better than some people have so uh this is just what were some of those ways if

is just what were some of those ways if I may ask yeah I think the uh for me I've been social like growing up in that sense so like making friends have never been like a big problem in my life having said that we have had like huge groups in our school life you know somehow maybe we started it all started there where we could so easily cross boundaries and make friends with like hundreds of people in our school but I think I could like I could keep it here as well it's it's not very difficult for me to go out of my comfort zone and just talk to people and kind of befriend them and I think uh the first thing that helped me was I I I used like

thing that helped me was I I I used like sometimes I use different apps also to socialize there was this one app called time left where you could have app you could have dinners with like five different strangers who you don't know and like the the AI or the app would uh kind of connect you to five different strangers with whom you could go and meet and have DIN and get cool I never heard of that and actually it started in us very recently the same app so I see their marketing things so you can actually give it a try it's it's pretty nice having said that I came through University so if someone they directly come through a job it's even more difficult for them to get into groups because you know uh when you're coming

because you know uh when you're coming through a university you have your college friends just like in India if you go change your city with a job it's much more difficult but if you go through the education route you get a class class you get a uh you get those 800 people that you can that you see every day in terms of like and you know they are in your age group they're doing the same thing as you are it's easier to break those boundaries um and secondly of course you'll always find a Indian Community of sorts going be here beat in us and it would be easier to break into those groups it would be easier to find

those groups it would be easier to find those like I I always say that I have two kinds of friends one who are like family and that those are kind of my core Indian group that I have here and then the other really good friends who are not Indians that I kind of meet day in and day out but um I think yeah I think the first thing if someone is looking to make friends is have they have to stop kind of thinking that they would be like what we are so one thing what people do is always seek for familiarity but when you are in a place where they don't speak the same language where the culture is totally different I think familiarity won't take you like a long way because kind of everything is

long way because kind of everything is different so you would it would be difficult for you to find that connect in basis of familiarity so at that point you need to have an open mind where you could communicate with them for what they are and not with your like you know preconceived notions of what you want to see in people so what I always try to do is kind of go into a conversation go into a Meetup with a like kind of a blank slate without expectations of what kind of person people I would meet what kind of people I want to um make friends with and I just go with a blank slate

with and I just go with a blank slate and see who I connect with who I wipe with and uh who can understand me pretty well you know that's such an interesting perspective because I've been trying to kind of apply that to my own experience with you know social life/ loneliness depending on how you frame it in the US and for the longest time I struggled with that but then just out of pure luck I was introduced to a few people I used to be exactly like you in that what you're saying is that um friends in India will always be that core special group of people that you literally grw up with that's pretty hard to beat I mean there's no debate around that

mean there's no debate around that obviously but I found that maybe I was just lucky but I actually ran into a group of friends that you know at least in the US itself it's as close as you can get to like that really close nit group of friends that you know you referenced earlier so yeah I mean I don't have a hack for that there's no protocols or tools one can use but I just think I was lucky enough to fall into that but what I like about what you said was if you yeah just have your doors open and not seek familiarity go and say hi to a random person who knows they might turn out to be you know that really special connection um in terms of friendship or otherwise um in your life

friendship or otherwise um in your life any other call outs with struggles besides um the stuff you mentioned already I think uh one of the biggest one here in France specifically is also the language barrier which is one of the biggest ones that people face here and yeah people do want to talk to people who speak French and French is the widely spoken language here some people do speak speak English some people are not confident enough to have decent conversations in English but yeah I mean it makes your life way easier if you invest in the language and learn French and although French is one of the most difficult languages to learn so I speak like English I speak Hindi I speak couple of other Indian languages I'm actually learning Spanish also now but having said that French is still the most difficult language that I've like

most difficult language that I've like kind of come across it it has like complexities in its verbal language it like the pronunciations are very difficult it's a very flowy language so sometimes when a person just comes and speaks French like very fast it's it's even difficult to bolate the words that they said compared to any other language it's a very flowy sort of a language so I mean most of the people that I see who struggle here are also because of language and it's not easy like you just come in here and everyone's speaking another language the Billboards have another language like Basics like fruits and vegetables when you're going out for groceries it's none none of it is in English so that's like when when I came

English so that's like when when I came here especially in the first year that was one of the biggest challenges but I think the ways I could navigate that uh was by learn by investing to learn in that language I actually did some classes back in India itself uh in Mumbai before coming to France that helped for sure but having said that I could only learn when I came here because I did get some Basics it was easier for me to catch up because I had some base from back in India but uh having said that but I know some people who did like their French C2 level which is a very high level of French in India but when they came to France in the first month they could not speak a word they could not understand conversations having a high level of frenches because

having a high level of frenches because the way the people pronounce here the way the people speak here it's very different the way your the teachers would teach you in India who are mostly Indians trying to like speak and teach French but the real uh what you would say the the French people talking French would be a whole new ball game alog together but yeah I mean if you pay enough attention to it if you just have that mind where you know you just kind of aware of certain things I think your mind will start to pick it up and after a while it ease down like you would eventually in a year or so you would know the basics that you want to know to survive here and uh to keep increasing your quality of life here you need to

your quality of life here you need to invest in the language and learn as much so suffice to say probably dualingo would not cut it um unless you actually go to France and start speaking or maybe not even go to France but start interacting with people that speak French probably you're saying that it it won't translate as nicely as one would have hoped at least stuff like dualingo Etc is that right what I would say is that if you're planning to do nothing even du lingo is better than nothing but the more you do the better that kind of a scene but if you think would it suffice maybe not definitely okay yeah that that makes sense and then walk me through this question that I've had so say you're walking down pick any random street in Paris it doesn't have to be

street in Paris it doesn't have to be like the more touristy but just any City street with say residential type area um what's the chatter that you hear is that first of all is that in French and second of all yeah what's like the general cuz you I know like with in Chicago where I live it's like very residential you'll hear like I don't know people talking about kids schools um like what they did at work whatever Etc is that just kind of a City thing across the world that's common or have you heard any maybe French specific um anecdotes maybe anything you can share in types of the you know ground level Vibes in in Paris for lack of a better face I mean this is very famous here in France but uh sorry this is uh very

France but uh sorry this is uh very famous here in France but uh actually what people say is French people love complaining and it's actually not a myth because like but in a very nons subtle kind of a way in the sense that they'll be complaining about something of course the chatter is always in French you would hardly hear Chatters in English there'll be a group of tourists going around that would speak in English probably but it would generally be in French and you would like here the the crowd is much more younger I would say especially within the cities so if you go towards the outskirts you'll have those as you said like like you know families talking about kids schools and all of that but within the city if you go to a bar if you go to a restaurant if

go to a bar if you go to a restaurant if you go to a cafe it's usually young people and more often than not they're usually complain about something or the other so that the tone but it's still funny and it's not like the tone is not kind of condescending or like it's just in their nature to kind of you know talk about things which don't please them that kind of say in a very funny non shalan kind of a way but um but yeah I think generally it's about like some it's usually about travel it's about other countries it's about uh some random Cuisine they tried so yeah it's more exploratory in nature it's not the usual my kid is going to this school kind of a conversation yeah interesting

kind of a conversation yeah interesting that's a great call out yeah I had absolutely no idea that French people were you know of the complaining sort what I did have an idea about however is um there's this very widely I feel like accepted notion at this point that um French people are jerks like they're just not you know friendly they're rude and kind of stuck up almost what has been your experience with that can you attest to that stereotype being true or is that just a madeup thing so I I absolutely do not agree to that attestation although I can understand why some people have those kind of experiences again it's a very individualistic experience that people can have I've had people who have come from India as a tourist and they've been

from India as a tourist and they've been around in Europe and when they come to Paris they say that why do people give such cold Vibes out here but that was not the case in Spain or in some other parts of Europe I think one of the major things that I feel is different is firstly here people are actually not very confident in English Okay so that confidence lack of confidence sometimes translates into what people thinks as being jerks or not being helpful okay so just imagine if you are you not KN in French I come like I start coming and asking you something in French the first person to come that you would just kind of signal to me that you don't understand and you can't speak the second person you do the same the 10th

second person you do the same the 10th person you would do the same but by the time there'll be a 100th person doing the same thing You' be irritated and you'll be like just don't come to me kind of you know you'll be done and dusted with it so what I have felt that people actually here are pretty much frustrated at a point that if you just start your statement with bjo which is like a greeting a good morning or a hello in French like the receptivity of people just completely changes so it's just about making that bit of effort to just start with something which like they are used to I remember the first time that I came to France I was at the airport okay and I asked this one of the

airport okay and I asked this one of the security ladies in the airport that you know where is this exit or something like that and she just stopped she didn't like say anything she just gave me a look and just she said bjo which is just to kind of educate me in that moment that you always start with a greeting and the first thing I felt the same thing okay like why would she have to kind of lecture me like that okay so what if I didn't start with a greeting but having lived here for 5 and a half years it actually makes a lot of difference now when in India when we just go to a shop and be like uh can you give me this like you just to the point

give me this like you just to the point and not being greedy enough or not start your day with oh good morning how are you today so here if you just randomly go to a bakery they would start start like when you like when you're done with your buying they would be like have a good day like in French and everything which is actually it makes a lot of difference later when I see compare both of these are so here just people are used to what you call the greetings and the goodbyes and the good mornings and when this when people just come up to them and straight away just come up with a point that you know show me this or where is this or things like that it's sometimes not very well received here I would say it's just a bit different so not exactly jerks you cannot kind of

not exactly jerks you cannot kind of classify people being jerks when what they expect is a bit more politeness you could say or a bit more shivalry which is like inherent in their culture usually that's very interesting because and the reason I say that is I'm almost suspicious that the French have turned you because so here's the thing here's you because so here's the thing so if I'm at an airport and if that happens to me I don't know if I would be as receptive as you are to what she was trying to do I commend you for being that way and for being open-minded and you know trying to understand her perspective but I would probably

perspective but I would probably sympathize an equal amount with somebody that was that would just be like she did not have to say that clearly I'm a tourist here I don't speak the language why would I have to say bonjour when you know I don't want to but again I that's where I think it becomes a more subjective thing but I think what you're laying out makes perfect sense like on that note I would like to give you one anecdotal example in a similar note as Indians when we see videos of you know YouTubers the what so-called Foreigner YouTubers going to India and do Namaste and you see the people around their receptivity around them changes you know

receptivity around them changes you know suddenly for them it's like oh this is a white person saying some Hindi word for example just the just the kind of vibe around that person the people's receptivity for that person it just changes it's that small little effort that he did different and it changed the whole kind of atmosphere so of course I I I would agree to your point that it shouldn't be a given that everyone should have to do it but having said that it's very as I said it's very inherent in their culture and so when so that's the way they know that you know that's the way they know that you should when you meet a people you greet them you thank them you wish them a good day when you part with them

them a good day when you part with them and when they see something different they kind of rather they anticipate it as being rude or not being kind of courteous enough so the kind of receptivity you can get can be similar but I know for the fact that if you just start with a bonjo people the way they would go out of their way to help you in many situations and even if they don't know English they would kind of go out of the way to try and explain their point to you amazing yeah I feel like I'm learning so much so many new things about um French people um shifting gears a little bit dendra um when it came to academics for your um MBA itself were the courses itself in French or were they in like English and I guess what

they in like English and I guess what was your experience with the academics in general um for your MBA um at I think you went to iseg right iseg Paris yeah so uh around academics I think uh firstly no it was not in French I did it from an English B school so uh all of my kind of uh curriculum and my academics were in English yeah and and one thing that actually stood out was just the uh the diversity of my batch so I had people from 33 countries in a class of 56 I had people from countries I hardly have just like heard names of like people from Jordan people from I know Ethiopia people from Uruguay like countries that we would just know because of football

we would just know because of football World Cup or you know like geography people from Iber coast and I actually befriended and met and spoke to people from like diverse range of countries having said that talking about academics I was not completely satisfied to be very honest like I'm especially coming from an Indian B School like where you know SPG like the quality of the faculty the rigorous nature of the course like we would do courses 8 to 10 to 12 hours a day and then you know even party in our hosts and then at morning at the 8 we would do classes till 12:00 at night then go out to party come back late at night and then be another class at 8:

night and then be another class at 8: a.m. here I think I had like 3 to four days a week I had classes that to also like a few hours four four five six hours and rest of it it was pretty chill the assignments that I got back in India we had deadlines of like one hour one and a half hours to submit online after a class sometimes and here you would get like four weeks 1 month two months for an assignment which would not take you a couple of days so in that sense it was I would not say disappointing because here the focus is more on you know you do your self- learning you explore you talk to people you do your group group work

to people you do your group group work and all of that but I would not say it's very rigorous so from an like an academic standpoint I would not say it is the best place unless maybe you are in the top top B schools like maybe HC or NC for example I've heard good things about their academics compared to the kind of the next level the grade two grade three grade four 4B schools that you would find but yeah I think here my course was more about meeting different people like going out of your comfort zone and doing new things and even travel like for example in my during my time at my college I was traveling half of the time no no Indian B school would

of the time no no Indian B school would give you enough time that you can make two trips a month during your Co work here I could do that yeah awesome yeah first of all thanks for the honesty there like yeah I think a lot of our listeners will be able to appreciate that if if they're just considering going to um say France or wherever for academics they might need to I guess rethink their you know motives or motivations for for doing that and then can you walk us through the job process so say you've graduated what does it look like for a general we'll just STI to Indian international student in France that has say done an MBA or a MERS because I think those would likely probably have at least parallel tracks if not the same exact track and yeah so

if not the same exact track and yeah so how does that look like so how difficult or easy is it to get a job um what are your prospects like what are some of your peers doing in terms of um how much money they make Etc I'm just trying to inform somebody that might be considering your career track for themselves and to kind of inform them of the prospects um after graduating so any light you can shed on that would be really helpful yeah for sure Nan and I get this this question a lot from a lot of people who are you know who are kind of thinking of the course that I did and they reach out to me on LinkedIn and

they reach out to me on LinkedIn and they have these kind of questions so I think hopefully my answer here would help answer them as well in the future um I mean to start off the one thing I would like to say to everyone who comes reach reaches out to me for this particular question is that it's very different from India in the sense there's no placements here first questions that the Indian students always have is that how how are the placements yeah what percentage of students got placed by Roi what is the ROI what are the placements here the whole scene is very different don't expect your college to get you placed this is not how it works here and I'm sure in most of the other places apart from India where the population is such

from India where the population is such that when if you're in a creamy B school you'll definitely be placed somewhere by the B School itself but here you have to do your own thing the school can at best be your companion in your search they can organize job fairs they can like you know help you introduce you to some people that also resumes exactly yeah give you coaching career coaching sessions they give you job fairs sometimes where you could go and speak to some of the company people maybe give your CV and even those things are for people who are proactive themselves so one thing is the owners of getting a job is on you it's on not on the college in

is on you it's on not on the college in India if the hus is on the college because if the college doesn't give you a 50 lakhs perom package it's on their own kind of um you know credibility that they cannot Place their students here it's not the case their only job is to educate you and make you ready for the like the job world but they don't help you find jobs that's one basic difference having said that people do find jobs of course like uh I think 17 or 18 people came to France from my own batch and first thing that we do after the course is to get an internship and the internship here is very very important so it's for it was 6 months for most of us some I was lucky enough

for most of us some I was lucky enough to get my internship within like 1 month of finishing my course so I didn't have a long stretch where I had to look for it but I've had people who had look like who searched for an internship for over 6 months having said that uh people do get something if they are resilient enough it's not easy here I would not paint a picture that it's very easy for someone to come here and get a job because again if you don't speak French just imagine you are like your contesting for only 20% of all the jobs in France and there are enough applicants even for that there are lots of international students but there's that you are only part of the 20% kind of applicants where you are relevant

of applicants where you are relevant because you don't speak French rest 80% are reserved for people who only speak French and English both the salaries are like really nice compared to I would not compare it to the US because I have heard like they're even more better in some other countries Like Us Canada maybe but um it's better are definitely better in India than in India even the internships pay well the internship can pay enough to cover for your rent for your expenses for your travel sometimes um whoever I know who like sometimes people took one year to find a job one and a half years two years and there's some people I know who went back to India just because they didn't find something but whoever chose to stay here whoever chose to be resilient enough to

whoever chose to be resilient enough to actually keep looking for something just reach out to people on LinkedIn I think most of them did find something um having said that my friends my peers I think most of them are working right now and they have like they're in really good roles and good companies there are people who are still kind of struggling in the sense that they so there's a contract called CDD which is like a like a fixed term contract it can be 6 months it can be one year it can be 2 years and then basically you're unemployed after that time and then you have to find another job so there are some people who found those kind of contracts which is CDD compared to a CDI which is like an uh

compared to a CDI which is like an uh indefinite contract which doesn't end so it's like a permanent employment so if some people found cdds or internships so they they have had that struggle that okay I finished the CDD so I have to look for another one now so they have had those patches of struggles where they have to come back to the job search Market uh but if you did land up a CDI soon enough and you have been lucky enough and kind of hardworking enough it's a balance of the two always and if you have been doing that then I think once you get a CDI it's one of the most kind of um powerful contracts in the world because in France like

in the world because in France like legally technically speaking they don't uh acknowledge at will employment what it means is that you cannot just wake up one day and just fire someone so just the process to fire someone is so kind of detailed and it's it's so contested that it's not very easy for companies to fire you so if someone actually landed up with a CDI there's very high likeliness that they are pretty much sorted for a good bit of time because they either have to prove that you are not worthy of like you know that your performance is very low or your discip you have disciplinary issues or the company is in like deep financial distress with in the absence of these three kind of uh events they cannot fire you so I think most of us who come here

you so I think most of us who come here to France most of my friends what they look for is that one CDI to get you uh on track like you know for your state helps with your visa and everything but uh but yeah I think most of my friends that I know are in stable and good paying jobs yeah awesome and then is there such a thing as um a work visa what prompts this question was you said you're limited to 20% of the jobs because of your probable non Proficiency in French so in the US what shrinks the net a little bit is companies that are willing to sponsor International students so is there such a criteria in France as well or is it mostly any you

France as well or is it mostly any you can apply to any company out there that doesn't have do that extra step of you know sponsoring your work visa is that a thing at all yes there is of course sponsorship for Visa uh but compared to all other countries what what I have like heard from people in the US in the UK it's way more simpler in France in the sense that I have not met many companies who deny sponsorship of visas because it's fairly simpler for them they don't have to pay huge bugs they they'd have higher thresholds to hire people from outside the country the overall immigration kind of system is more receptive to foreigners and especially Indians compared to many other countries so one of the most interesting things here is that uh after doing my course I had two years of what

doing my course I had two years of what is called an APS which is a work search Visa all other nationalities people from all other countries have one year Indians have two years and Al Indians and algerians I think they have two years I don't even know why and now the most beautiful part is recently the both the governments India and France they announced that it it'll be like it'll be increased to 5 years going forward oh wow so like they actually are looking to attract even more Talent from India they are actually investing in teaching the language back in India they the government has like allocated funds to promote French as a language in India and also they have made it to 5 years

and also they have made it to 5 years now so basically if you come to France do your higher education you'll have 5 years to look for a job and work that Visa would allow you to work even when you get a job so for First 5 years no one has to even sponsor you for me it was 2 years years which I actually used like I got sponsored at the end of those two years and U having uh to talk about the Visas so once you get a company who's willing to sponsor you which is not so I I wouldn't say that every every company is okay to sponsor you but like the likelihood that a company would

the likelihood that a company would sponsor you is higher in France compared to like when I apply for jobs in UK or us or Canada it's like most companies have it written that we don't sponsor so if if description they'll just note that this position does not offer sponsorship for work visas yeah but in France you won't see that in most of the job applications that uh like if you don't have a work permit we won't consider you having said that there are some companies small companies especially who don't even want to take like any chance or they don't even want to do the little bit of processes that they have to do they do mention but it's not the case in most of the companies if you are in like any big

the companies if you are in like any big company like a deoy PWC or a Capco or like you know a company which is kind of multinational I think it would it should be a cew for them to sponsor you in France um because the costs are pretty low you just need to hire an immigration consultant who does all the paperwork sometimes even the like I can do the paperwork but the companies of usually have that immigration like the tie ups with those people who help you in the process but um but the Visa I have right now it's called passport T which is like a talent passport uh for 4 years and uh that entitles me to work in France for 4

that entitles me to work in France for 4 years and it's not to any company the the good part of it is that you know in most countries like I actually was working with a firm in Canada and they wanted me to move to Canada one of the reasons I didn't move was because the Visa I got there was linked to that company so the day I part ways with the company I'll have to find a new sponsor or leave the country but in France that's not the case if you get a passport Talon Visa it's not linked to any company it's your like work visa for 4 years at the end of four years if I don't have a company of course I'll need another company to renew knew it there's another Visa called European

it there's another Visa called European blue card which is for 5 years and that that with that you can work anywhere in the Europe not just in France and you don't need a sponsorship but uh but these have salary thresholds so the passport that I have had a salary threshold so actually I remember my salary was just around the threshold so it had to be increased by like a a fair bit like a small bit just to that yeah just to be for me to get that visa and the European blue card has a has a higher salary threshold even than this uh but in normal cases you also get onee visas which is if your salary is not even up to the foure salary uh fouryear

even up to the foure salary uh fouryear Visa mark uh but having said that yeah I would say it's easier compared to many other countries to get a visa to work here in France and sometimes the government is even so helpful that I know of like some people who don't even have jobs okay but there's something called an unemployed ment uh Insurance here which we can talk about like later in the uh conversation that if you are entitled to that unemployment insurance you're entitled to a Visa so they don't have a job their earlier Visa is expiring they don't even have a work search Visa but they got a visa extension for one year just because they had rights like they were they were due to get the unemployment benefits and to get it you need to stay here you need to

get it you need to stay here you need to live here so they they got a Visa just for that to get it would you need to be fired from your job or is it that somebody can just quit their job and still be eligible for the unemployment benefits as you mentioned so as I said there are three types of like the three ways you can break a contract here one is when you resign second is when you mutually terminate a contract and third is when you fired it's very very less likely that you'll be fired because of the process that I told you okay so because it's actually sometimes unless the company is very easily in like economic distress or you have done something which is like you know a disciplinary issues stuff like that or your performance has been really bad for

your performance has been really bad for a long time you'll be fired then you're definitely entitled to that uh unemployment benefit uh but so in in the terms of mutual uh when you mutually break the contract you you are even entitled to a severance pay which which you can negotiate as per like with the company because uh because because that Severance there's no fixed amount to it so and for the company if they don't if they're not able to negotiate with you they have to go through this route which they might or might not be successful which can be really painstaking for them you know so you can actually negotiate a good buyout of that kind of to break that contract even then you are eligible for the unemployment benefit in case of resignation if it's a usual res

resignation if it's a usual res resignation you are not entitled but having said that there are few cases even in resignation you are entitled to when you can there's some exemptions to rules like you know if you resign because of this this reason and you can prove it then you are entitled even if you resign yourself said but I'm not exactly sure here what are the exact parameters in which you get I think that's still really great Direction in terms of if somebody wants to you know listen up to here and then obviously go in and do their own research because yeah this was not meant to be um the amount of deep diving that we've already done but yeah thanks so much for that really insightful really in detailed um walk through about how the whole you know system works in general after you

know system works in general after you know you graduate so with that something I wondered about and something that's I guess close to me is when you leave home to go somewhere else you uproot your entire life begin fresh in a new environment in a new country there comes with that usually a lot of you know learnings that become intrinsically a part of you like these are learnings that are wired into your brain you will probably die with these beliefs or these learnings that have come about so what are some of those really intense ways in which your life has changed as the consequence of you moving to France um and I know this is kind of a heavy loaded question because I've heard that a lot of times the first thing that comes to your mind is probably the most

comes to your mind is probably the most fitting for such type of questions but yeah I let you answer this now yeah and it's a very good question n so one thing I keep thinking about all the times is that when I came here I could easily distinguish so of course it's about human behavior that you learn the most and in my mind what I could actually segregate the most is what is inherent to you as a human being versus what is cultural what I mean by that is that in India you know you used to a lot of things which is which is like societal which is cultural in nature and not human in nature but what we tend to believe that this is human everyone does

believe that this is human everyone does it when you come to a new place when you talk to different people when you travel meet other people around the world you can actually distinguish between what is human that okay all human beings do this they have it's a human nature to do this but what is cultural only Indians do it but in India having growing up there having just met people from there because it's a practice there we feel that it's human to do it so that segregation I could like understand pretty well when I came here and having said that I think I became more open-minded to a lot of things like I could I'm I would say like just the the kind of preconceived notions I had about

kind of preconceived notions I had about a lot of things broke I would now want to kind of even before assuming anything now I try to delve deeper into things and understand people's perspective rather than just having a judgment I think um another thing I really learned here was that in India you know sometimes people have the tendency to like pass the cycle of trauma for example your like your boss like kind of gave you his mind when you didn't didn't do something that well you would give it to your like you know your security guard for that matter he would go and give it to his wife and then she would give it to her children and in here like it's more Equitable in the sense that

it's more Equitable in the sense that even the plumber who came to my house or the person who comes to clean they won't take it from us either like you have to be equally respectable to them you cannot pass on your own trauma to other people thinking that you know and it's not based on what the profession you are in the hierarchy in India is very much based on profession if you are like a security guard sometimes people even salute the people who just like were nobody's in that sense so here yeah here I see like Bridget mcon who's the wife of like Emanuel macron the president of France just like being be by the S without any security without any people coming in like ambushing her for a selfie or picture there's no stardom

selfie or picture there's no stardom kind of a culture here so that kind of a general respect of people I think it's pretty nice here yeah I think that's a really funny call out because I know there's a How I Met Your Mother episode on the you know cycle of trauma that you just referenced where um I think Marshall gets yelled at so Barney drags him down to a diner and forces him to yell at the you know the their server that was bringing them food and Marshall just struggles so much with doing that so I think it's really interesting in that it almost sounds like Europe might be the only part of the world that's you know stuck true with that type of not

know stuck true with that type of not placing somebody's the amount of respect you give somebody to their profession whereas even the US has in some ways yeah um Fallen prey to that India definitely has obviously I know that because I grew up there so it's prevent there but I think that's a really cool perspective and not something I was aware of that yeah it really sounds it is that much Equitable when it comes to you know General Society last question here what is the one piece of advice that you would give to any person that's trying to move to France for will'll stick to studies for now but also with the intention of living there semi longterm if not super duper long term yeah I think the first advice that I could think of is that if you're planning to come here it's a beautiful place you would but having said that you

place you would but having said that you have to drop a lot of things that you know right now now and that you kind of live with every day so you have to be prepared to come with a really open mind you have to come with a very kind of with your receptivity at like high at Max when you're coming to a new place because you would be shocked with the difference in the way the society functions here as a whole so you cannot kind of in this Society you cannot come with your habits that you get from India and just live here you'll not be able to adjust but having said that yeah and I think if you like like to travel if you

think if you like like to travel if you want to see the world if you want to uh meet people from different walks of life from different countries from different cultures religion from people of like from countries that you have not even heard names of probably it's a good place to come and be be in the mix of that around the world and um but I would say that don't look for everything Indian here I have some friends okay like they they were not used to eating spicy food when they lived in India but when they came here suddenly just the craving for spicy food went so high that they would put so much of spices in their food which sometimes is not even eatable so they over compensate for what

eatable so they over compensate for what they don't get here so and one of the things that I felt that I like love about myself being in France that I I feel I'm closer to India which is a very good thing I I am more thankful for things that I got in India when I came here because you don't get them here and then you realize the value of it and having said that when you come here and you go back you'll always go back with some certain things which you'll be thankful for when you are in India and you you need to kind of choose you need to focus on those positives instead of what you don't have for example in France you cannot wake up every day and

France you cannot wake up every day and crib that you don't have help that the food is not what you would like it to be or you know you have to take the metro and you don't have a car the same way when you go back to India I try to like not crib about the fact like you know you enjoy those PKS in India when you lived there you en enjoyed it all your life so when you are here you should try to enjoy the perks that are here like traveling like um you know government support for that matter like you get lot of benefits from the government in for forms of rent subsidies in forms of I mean I bought a bicycle I got 50% from

mean I bought a bicycle I got 50% from the government just as a e kind of an initiative because you bought a cycle and those kind of stuff so yeah just basically choosing to focus on the positives and not what you are missing out was versus being in endf definitely can relate to a lot of those call out especially the one about um often it is going away from home that actually brings you closest to home like I never personally used to listen to say Bollywood music or Hindi music to the extent that I have started started doing over these past two years I'm like I'll wake up randomly and crank Kish Kumar and I'm like who am I what is going on here but it just hits different dude it's just just uh yeah I mean there's

it's just just uh yeah I mean there's something about it I wish there was a term for it maybe somebody should come up with that I don't know whose job it is to do that but maybe you and I can um later but D it's been so nice um talking to you and learning about your experience in terms of the job the work visa um the Socialist nature and really your entire experience living in France so thank you so so much for taking the time today and I I hope you continue to grow and build uh through the amazing life that you're living and and it's been really amazing to you know follow your journey so far for 18 years and

your journey so far for 18 years and hopefully for many more years to come thank you so much ran it was lovely being here and talking to you as always and uh yeah I hope people benefit from this and would like consider moving to Europe or the US and yeah thank you so much that brings us to the end of episode 10 of The Ready Set do podcast I cannot believe that it's been 10 episodes already and the ride so far has been nothing short of just phenomenal if you benefited from this discussion in any way the easiest way to support this podcast is by subscribing to my channel on YouTube and by giving me up to a festar rating on Spotify as always I cannot thank you all enough for sharing these conversations with those that

these conversations with those that continue to benefit from them to get in touch with me or to nominate any guests for the podcast please feel free to reach out on my Instagram which is ready. set.2 I actually do not have a quote for the week for this episode and my reasoning there is the first person to to point that out to me in some way we'll get a $10 gift card from Amazon so leaving that as a fun Easter egg for you know somebody out there to find maybe hopefully within the next 30 Years catch you all in the next one new episodes every Wednesday