How to Make Accurate Life Decisions - w/ Utpal transcript

Cricket related sport related that that may help me in life so signed up for something called um a masters in sport biome mechanics at lra which is supposed to be the best sport University in the world has the best sport incubation Center um for for for startups trer builds um looking back at Cricket revolutions app that we were building we revolutions app that we were building too many things at the same time and I think even at Digger initially we were doing the same thing we were solving multiple problems where you know we were taking on secret management we were taking on cicd for terraform we were taking on you know containerization of whichever repo had to upload so I guess we were solving like five or six problems and we realized there were multiple points of

realized there were multiple points of failure again same realization that I had at Cricket Revolution like a year or two later but now in Aventure back company with multiple engineers and resources on hand got a lot of stars got a lot of attention on YouTube got a lot of attention from from influencers in this terraform sphere um and and just continue to lean in towards that and in October I was offered to be one of the co-founders because of a certain because of a few internal changes that needed to happen at at Digger and and accepted it and welcome to the ready said do podcast where we discuss journeys of not experts who are just two steps ahead of us I'm Naman Pand a noteworthy not

us I'm Naman Pand a noteworthy not expert and in this episode I'm joined by utpal nadigar my discussion today with utpal offers a unique take on decision-making for anyone that's ever considered how different their life might have been if they had made alternate choices utpal is a co-founder at Digger which is a UK and Bay Area based startup but perhaps more notably he is a lifelong Cricket fanatic having played semi-professionally in India and he continues to play Club Cricket in the UK as of May 2024 he is also the co-founder of the cricket Revolution which is a product for cricketers to leverage to get better at the sport a single striking theme underlines UT's remarkable life Journey so far his belief that when making an important life decision the outcome that

life decision the outcome that guarantees the most fun is in fact the right option before you immediately discard that as a terrible take give me just a moment I'd like you to really consider your own life Journey thus far and think of how many times the option that guaranteed the most fun was not in fact the easiest option we discussed how utal combined the north star of his life his passion for Cricket with his amazing ability to just do things to forge out such an incredible life Journey for himself doing Justice to my show title and the spirit of just jumping in and doing things we go over what it takes to make it as a professional cricketer at least ways out of India living conducting research and playing Cricket in the UK and finally spearheading the growth of an international Tech startup

growth of an international Tech startup we see how time and time again utal was able to apply his rule for optimizing for fun with pretty decent results while recording this episode I couldn't help but think back to Steve Jobs's famous Stanford commencement speech from 2005 where he said quote you cannot connect the dots looking forward you can only connect them looking backwards so you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future you have to trust in something your gut Destiny Life Karma whatever end quote I found that every single step of ul's Journey potentially gives Insight on how one can apply the optimize for fun rule to their own life decisions for what it's worth I think it is at least an interesting thought experiment to conduct on our own

experiment to conduct on our own Journeys thus far in keeping with our them of learning from somebody that's just two steps ahead instead of an expert I'd like to emphasize that it is not lost on me that the generalizations I'm making are broad at their best and Ill advised at their worst having said that my goal is merely to highlight that there is a possibility that answers to seemingly infinite philosophical questions like how to make life decisions accurately can in fact be as simple as just optimize for fun so now without further Ado my conversation with utal welcome thanks n happy to be here um let's let's jump into things let's talk about cricket and I know it's been probably the notar of your life in terms of the one thing that that you've been passionate about throughout your journey which we will be unpacking here shortly

which we will be unpacking here shortly can you can you talk us through what about Cricket interests you so much and and what about it makes you you know just love it so much that it just refuses to go away uh from being a key part of your life well this reminds me of a very very funny story right very early on right when I was a kid 2004 I think it was when seok scor is uh 300 and 309 that was the first ever series that I watched um and I didn't know how Cricket worked I didn't know the Innings and what Innings meant and I I got myself a book like a new and I asked my dad you know how things work you know what's first Innings what's the second

what's first Innings what's the second Innings you know does the fourth Innings mean four Innings or does it two does it to each and that sort of stuff yeah um and my dad sort of explained the game to me that day he he' actually tried a little bit before but he was unsuccessful because well I hadn't taken on you know I I was very I was disinterested well 2004 was like seven years old and like six seven years old gotta really really wanted I was looking for cool stuff to do right like you have a lot of free time and looking for cool stuff to do watched SE bat and like never stopped watching and being in love

never stopped watching and being in love with the game so that's where it started I guess and just stuck on I guess maybe I just found it and it's just been the most important thing in my life ever since so I think that's really interesting because you say that it was seak that made you take notice of the game so most people or most kids that I played Cricket with were all about batting in our books bowling was just something you did when you didn't have to bat and to get to that point where you did have to bat again but it did it does sound sound like you kind of went the other way almost and I started off

the other way almost and I started off as a batsman by the way like until year 10 or like 10th grade in India um I wanted to be a batsman I grew a lot in that period like in terms of not like in in you know in terms of my career and stuff but like I just became really tall suddenly like I was I I grew like I think six Ines or something over a period of say three years slightly lower I just couldn't bat as well anymore but even if I didn't try hard I was bowling better than I wanted to I was told to lean in into whatever I

to I was told to lean in into whatever I did better and the coaches and I've been going to like I started going to Cricket coaching in like year eight or whatever seriously year seven year eight before that I used to go to summer C and stuff and like seven seventh standard eighth standard ninth standard was batsman focused on bowling a little bit and then on just bowling caught on just because of how tall I became that's the story I see I actually yeah that's the first that I'm hearing of that is I never realized you started off as a as a batter um so I guess talk is through that stage where you were really um you know considering Cricket as a professional career option and you know what that was like what what goes into the training required at least to make it at a semipro level can you can you

it at a semipro level can you can you walk us through that phase of your life where you were um considering to make it your professional you know career for sure like from my under 16 days till my under 23 days so that's say from 10 standard till year four of engineering um I was really really looking to play cricket that was that's six years right give or take yeah six seven years of my life I think it's about 16 to 22 23 that that's that's the time frame nothing else mattered in my life like obviously I did a lot of other things you know wrote my 10th boards wrote my 12th boards got into my engineering and like studied engineering and everything but in my head all that mattered was I had

in my head all that mattered was I had to play for India that was the only sort of NSTAR in my head at that point whatever else was happening was just an autopilot like yeah type of thing but I guess it takes a lot out of you and it requires you to do that one thing and one thing only and I think that's a realization that's happened to me a lot later than it should have well uh I guess I don't know if it's for the good or for the bad but like it requires I realized over those six years that you know how how important strength and conditioning is how important sleep is how important being at the right place at the right time is and the thing is

at the right time is and the thing is I'm not talking about luck here I'm talking about presenting myself in places that I need to be more often than what I presented myself like maybe going and uh showing up at specific places to bowl or you know if there's a particular tournament instead of I don't know doing something else actually showing up there and and doing that sort of stuff um yeah I think just just to break it down I guess um it it takes a lot and I think a lot of people who were my peers were really successful right now um if I look at what I did and what they did and what at what I did and what they did different I guess what they did

they did different I guess what they did different was the fact that for them as well nothing else mattered but then the priority stack was that cricket cricket cricket and then something else for me it was cricket and then something else so there there are different components of cricket if that makes sense there's cricket skill Cricket strength and conditioning Cricket nutrition cricket and a bunch of other stuff right like there's so many other factors and like yeah I think that's they ticked most boxes out of that um and then that's why they're as successful as they are and I was barely tiing one box I guess um if you look back and I think that's that's what it takes that's what it took and that's what it still takes probably more right now um yeah yeah to

probably more right now um yeah yeah to to put it into perspective until the year last year of my engineering I just played cricket and and and wanted to go pro played at a decent level I wouldn't say I didn't I played at first division level in in in Bangalore which is which is really good um you know bold to some of the best teams that come to play to come to play um in in Bangalore so and traveled around to play cricket with the university like went to Sri Lanka about six times I do remember that yep that's right yeah so I have zero regrets just the fact that just a retrospective sort of thought thought process saying that you know I done that maybe my path in life

know I done that maybe my path in life would have been different yeah and I know that that's something that we will be exploring through our conversation where essentially it's your entire Journey so far sounds like it really has just been a exercise of you know just connecting the dots backwards that's referencing the Steve Jobs speech that convocation speech where he um you know where he was like you can only connect the dots backwards on that same theme would you say that perhaps if you hadn't and enrolled in electronics engineering which is what you studied you might have had a better shot or or not really you know there there was a point right after engineering right where I worked really hard there was this one year where I worked really hard on on my skill and

worked really hard on on my skill and right after when when things when Co hit I think we may hit on it later on when when we talk about what I did after engineering and stuff but I'm just referencing this because there was a point in time there where I kept thinking about this where you know you know had I done this would it have been better had I done that would it have been better but then my conclusion at the end of it was like there are like obviously going to be hundred different parts that I could have taken but I took this one and I'm just dealing the cards that I've been dealt with type of thing like I'm just going to go ahead and move

like I'm just going to go ahead and move forward based on where I stand today but I guess yes that's that's true I guess a lot of people engineering is requires four or five boxes of its own like if cricket has four or five boxes engineering has four or five boxes of its own right barely taking a box each maybe I didn't do any favors to myself um but I'm not in a very bad place today according to me either so that's that that's how I think about it I guess doing the right thing that I felt at that point in time again the most fun thing and the right thing at that point in time I've done obviously my parents wanted me to study a little more like they they wanted safety it's

more like they they wanted safety it's obvious like they they care for me right like they want me to do well in life and they want me to just be well settled and that sort of thing and for them it was like they lent more towards the study and and focus on that make no mistake they supported me in whatever I wanted to do but like yeah their their obvious preference was towards something that you know gets me um a good career and a good life a fair guarantee of a good career in a good life and that is for sure without a doubt important you know that safety net to for you to stand on

that safety net to for you to stand on your feet which you know it really sounds like you have so um a couple call outs I really like what you said about you've always wanted to do the most fun thing that you can at any given point of your life because I know and our listeners will know through our conversation exactly what you mean by that but um so talk us through that that year after um graduating from your undergrad where you were you know just full-time preparing practicing getting better at Cricket and then it sounds like uh Co came around and kind of foiled your plans in some way what was what was that like so 2019 um was playing div W Cricket in Bangalore for very very very good club um it was

very very very good club um it was packed the club side was packed like there were 15 really good cricketers and I wasn't getting as much opportunity that I wanted so I spoke to the captain asking him about my chances right after my engineering this is June is so I told him like look is there a chance for me to make it this year and he said unfortunately no and I think he did me a favor there because I said okay cool if that's the case I'm not going to show up for the rest of the games uh that's what I told him um very like he's still a

I told him um very like he's still a very close friend of mine we chat and everything but that's what I told him look I don't think I can show up to the rest of the games if I cannot get to play because I need to make a life for a living because well my engineering is done I need to do something with my life um so I'm going to do something else and that something else at that point had I had only two things that I did really well I used to work out a lot because obviously I wanted to be a fast bowler with you know who used to the ball fast

with you know who used to the ball fast for a bit and obviously I wanted to get strong to do that and I played Cricket so the these were the only two things that I did in really well so I thought of going to one of the best Str and conditioning facilities in Bangalore at the time and then saying look um I've been training here for a while and I have these I'm I have this time right now where I want to um train for the offseason and get ready for the next year would you accept me as an intern because I wouldn't have anything else to do for the rest of the day and they were like cool because they needed somebody to do some work right like obviously

to do some work right like obviously there's there's a lot of work in a gym right like there's generating generating leads there's also taking classes and there's programming and different things require different sort of um skills but like there are there are a bunch of people that they always need and there's always hands on deck needed and obviously they they chose me as one of the persons to to keep hands on deck and at that point I was interning during the day at the gym working out again during the day playing Cricket for the rest so basically I I joined a really really really good Academy in Bangalore um you know paid per session you know told him what my goals are I said look my goal

what my goals are I said look my goal right now is to make it to the under 23 Karnataka side next year and then you know I want to move forward here are the problems that I'm I have with bowling here are the problems that are not getting me noticed like this is why I'm not getting noticed I want to fix these things um and he said cool and he really really helped me genuinely I think that's the best I've ever bored uh over those nine months that's the fittest I've ever been that's the most I've ever lifted that period like I I I look back and I'm like wow I was I look at my pictures you know Google photos just shows up

just shows up these I'm like man I was because there's nothing else I was doing I was bowling and working out that's it right and interning at that gym and obviously that I took really seriously as well uh wrote an exam um called the certified standing conditioning specialist exam and and the eventual goal was like okay I'll play cricket and I'll also start a gym that was my sort of FAIR Plan in my head okay cool that's that's my goal like that's my w goal but like that's my goal but then in the m in March Co hit right like and there was so much uncertainty right like what next and like how where do we move type of thing and yeah well that's

move type of thing and yeah well that's where I guess that block of training sort of abruptly ended so to speak so and after that point did you decide to get certified as a as a trainer or did you completely stop Cricket or were you still kind of on the fringes kind of you know hushing it out seeing what what might happen keeping your options open or I guess how did you approach that uncertainty that you referenced just now so I got certified in December hit in March so I was already working with a few more clients and training them during the day as a coach as a fitness coach and again playing for the rest of the day well yeah how I approached that time was like yeah I continued doing

time was like yeah I continued doing these online sessions for cricketers and and whatnot at that point but like yeah there was there was not really much else I could do from a cricket playing perspective but interesting story is at that point is when Kunal and I started talking Kunal is is you know a really close friend of mine uh I know I'm just randomly bringing up a random name into this but um we played together for a few years and then we got together and you know started building stuff for cricketers slowly during during Co so basically what happened was that we started talking and saying look there are so many of these cricketers who have faced problems that we have faced and

faced problems that we have faced and there's nothing else we can do right now because well I can't play he nobody can play apparently he had thought of starting coaching because he just stepped off like stepped back from playing active cricket and he was like looking at what to do next and type of that type of thing and they're like okay cool let's try and build something for cricketers so that's where I think subconsciously or certainly I I think I I sort of realized that maybe making it big in India would is not as predictable obviously because um there's uncertainty right now also there's a lot of hurdles that I'll have to clear after this uncertainty passes and I don't even know how long this uncertainty is going to be for that those two points sort of came

for that those two points sort of came in my head and like okay cool let's try and build something for cricketers and I obviously still had this goal of trying to start a gym eventually right um but then Kunal did something very interesting he said whatever we do should not hold us into a location and in hset that's an excellent sort of point that he made right like otherwise I would probably be owning a couple of gyms in Bangalore today genuinely if Kanan hadn't told me that that day um I was like my my point to him was after covid let's create this thing where cricketers come and train every day like let's let's create this place where cricketers come and work out every day he's like why do you want to do that

he's like why do you want to do that like everything's online let's do something you know digital that that's what his thought process was and that's all it was but like I think that's that Insight helped so much that we started talking to cricketers and thinking about what to build and I guess that's where Cricket Revolution seat started so Cricket Revolution was what I was working on um in that period so that sounds like it was your first for into you know actually building something out so you referen that you were yourself a cricketer so you had a great Insight or you know you could empathize with what what cricketers needed at the time and you know the way that they need needed it delivered to them so I guess curious um about what a typical program look like so say I'm a person you know

like so say I'm a person you know signing up or reaching out for help or coaching and I'll be like hey I'm a bowler say I'm you know whatever hitting 130 kilm per hour and want to get to like 140 145 so I get on a call with you and then what happens yeah it's interesting again this has a backstory as well so you know when I told you that I was juggling cricket and Engineering there were four boxes that I was talking about right that cricket I think I'm going to reference that here because like those four boxes is what we cater to essentially I'm saying four because now I have the benefit of hindsight but like there there it was strength and conditioning skill nutrition and mindset um so basically

nutrition and mindset um so basically what any cricketer could do was again this was what we drafted based on the resources that we had started sketching and stuff there were two ways in which what we were building could be used one was directly by teams where teams already had coaches and then they could use a portal where they would would interface with their players M and two was directly by the players where the players could you know um start using the tool where well if they wanted anything from skill related stuff where they could upload their videos and get feedback from a TCR coach um if they had um you know any mindset related stuff they could track their uh mood from time to time to see what causes fluctuation they could Journal um and um they could

they could Journal um and um they could meditate um you know um and they could track what their food was like they could track calories of what they're eating every day um in hindsight again we were trying to do calm plus plus my fitness P pal plus you know there's uh there's a bunch of other you know tools like four or five tools together in one particular product and like for complete noobs who've never built anything in their lives and who couldn't code at the time you know thinking about like think and at that point it was like the more the merrier right like the more the better right like as wide of a net as possible like you don't want to leave anything on the table it's a classic no

anything on the table it's a classic no mistake by the way like it's a classic no mistake I would make that mistake again if I did not know stuff that I know today looking back obviously Cricket Revolution still exists and people still interface with the product and it the way they use it is different but it still exists looking back I think initially if we had done one thing really well um we could have probably been more successful than what we are today that's that's how I think about it that's that's a very interesting interesting insight utal and I guess around this time and I only really know this for our listeners because me and utal have followed each other on um social media for a while but you were really good and you know like you were

really good and you know like you were sharing a lot of content around Cricket like really Niche um content around like a slight little angle of change on your wrist can make you swing the ball and such and like you were really you know putting yourself out there and really being the brand of cricket Revolution what was that like and and recently we've had a guest on this podcast that spoke explicitly about uh building a personal brand online but their approach was more via LinkedIn so I'm just trying to explore what um how different that is if you do that via Instagram which is what you were doing so what was that whole experience like and what were you trying to get out of that essentially yeah cool again again this again has a back story so each question has a back story and it moves me f I love it it's

story and it moves me f I love it it's just it makes it so much more concrete so yeah that's great so so again fast forward you know we spoke until March fast forward to September I now had an admit at lra I realized you know I I started applying to UNI slowly saying you know I need to do something in life yeah I'm building this but like can I do anything that's Cricket related sport related that that may help me in life so signed up for something called um a masters in sport biome mechanics at lra which is supposed to be the best sport University in the world has the best sport incubation Center um for for for startups trying build U build um Sport

startups trying build U build um Sport and sports Tech products I was like cool let me I got in and I was like cool let me go because there's nothing that I could do in India at that point I think from March 2020 to like September 21 there was not much in India happening like there was stuff happening but it was all indoors and like obviously first wave second wave there was a lot of you know stuff that couldn't be done in India so I was like okay let me just go to the UK and at that point in lra we started reading a lot of fast bowling papers U as a part of you know what are the four kinematic factors that help improve ball relase

factors that help improve ball relase speed and it's super interesting to me given how much of a cricket nerd I am right because absolutely this is just me nerding out on the stuff that I love the most and uh and programmatically right like how how do Force plates work you know like a bunch of stuff that I wouldn't have thought about Cricket in that sense at all had I not done that course those videos that I created on Instagram at that point were just me it it was just me reading those papers and trying to create as concise a format of it and then put it out um mostly for my own consumption because I was I was making it as concise as possible and

making it as concise as possible and trying to understand it a little better but also it was on brand for Cricket revolutions audience that was trying to but that was not your primary goal it sounds like you were really just doing to disseminate that knowledge that you were and that you were really passionate about yeah absolutely I I didn't have a purpose as to why I was doing it it just seemed cool there was a lot of views that it was getting it was it was like dopamine inducing also like you know absolutely like one of them actually crossed like a million like something like that where I think I spoke about the corridor of uncertainty know where batsman is neither playing forward or back um when a fast Bower is bowling and

back um when a fast Bower is bowling and that one just blew up it probably is because of the visual that I had taken from Channel you did put a decent amount of work into those I do remember you had like the green screen action going on and you had all of your colorful visuals and slow MOS it it was really well produced it sounded like or it looked like I mean to say well produced as in like Instagram had a green screen feature I used to create videos and then just do it I didn't use any editing tool except Instagram itself and the goal though was just it felt good that I was getting that attention from the right kind of people like attention from

kind of people like attention from cricketers in that sense felt felt really good at that point because we were building something for cricketers I was doing something Cricket trying to get attention of cricketers yeah it it just felt good and I I think for that period I generally tell a lot of people I was studying Cricket I was building stuff on top of cricket I was playing Cricket because I started playing Cricket in the UK at that point so I was literally my entire life revolved on Cricket and I think looking back that is genuinely the best time of my life that I've ever had like um yeah so again without getting philosophical um yeah that's that's what I was the goal was not to get build a personal Bland to be

not to get build a personal Bland to be honest the goal was to get as many people interested in cricket Revolution as possible and also because was enjoying the attention yeah yeah just just you know just for the thrill of it sound side that's amazing and I really I want to call out just how happy and how glowed up your face became just now when you were like that was the happiest period of my life and it's it's so so nice to you know hear you say that and as you recount that experience because yeah it really does sound like you know you were really um thriving back in the day not that you aren't anymore but so let's talk about um love R my first

let's talk about um love R my first question is how how long did it take you before you realize that it's pronounced love BR yeah when you know even now if I if somebody reads love BR back in India they say love bro or I would I would have said love borrow or something yeah well uh I I I think I went in Feb or March of just before covid hit in India I was going to these uni fairs uh in in Bangalore um and U I went to the high I think on mg Road and I met um somebody from lra and they said lra that's when I

from lra and they said lra that's when I started saying lra I was like I really want to get into love whatever you know I I said some variant of how IND would pronounce it and then and then they said no this is how it's pronounced they they didn't actually say it but they spoke about love BR and I just caught on I guess that's how that's how I started saying love BR and not love BR and then I guess on a more serious note though you you reference that it's one of the best if not I think you said the best best you know Sports biomechanics uh Institute in the world so was it competitive it must have been like what was the process like I'm so curious I I

was the process like I'm so curious I I actually know nothing about this field so did you have to submit like proof of research or like what was that whole thing like for you it's a it's a very interesting thing right like they looked at people who are at the intersection of engineering and Sport especially for sport biome mechanics they needed and I fit right in interestingly uh people who had some sort of an engineering background because was a bit fair amount of programming involved in in trying to process the data that you'd be collecting during the research project that you be doing also people with Sport and Sport related backgrounds either certification or something that you have done in sport that could Aid the course or a professionally or

or a professionally or semi-professionally right professionally not not just as an athlete even like say you had a certification so at by that point I had a certification standing conditioning but I also had played so that actually aided my application right but I guess just having played will not help to be honest um because it's a course where you're doing research and not playing as much um unless it's a sports quot seat I guess uh but uh it was more mostly the certification and strength conditioning plus the fact that I was an engineer and plus what I think I think I also proposed what my research project would have been and like in hindsight it was very naive I didn't know how the course

very naive I didn't know how the course would be structured and stuff but like I guess they thought it was ambitious and interesting and like said thought of giving me a chance type of thing yeah it is pretty competitive because I I see a lot of people in India right now applying to different courses in lra and keep getting denied because their backgrounds don't match either they're too Technical and not very sporty or they're too sporty and not very technical so there's this middle ground that I fit into at that point I guess and yeah that's what got me in interesting so what what was your experience like suddenly finding yourself in a new country studying or researching in a way that I think you hadn't been exposed to before at that

hadn't been exposed to before at that time and then the third facet of that is playing Cricket in a new country because even though the sport is the same I'm sure from the little I know about Cricket it must have been a completely different experience not just because of the pitches and such but you know really the weather the type of teammates so can you break those three down for us a little bit for sure all the cricket that I played until I started playing Cricket in the UK was very serious Cricket right like if I don't do well on a day I used to come back home and cry or feel very upset and not cry but like feel a little upset take it person K yourself yeah I

upset take it person K yourself yeah I still take it personally though like I still you know really um feel upset and like take it personally but like it's a lot less riding on my shoulders in terms of cricket right now but yeah you know in in in after the first few months um I think four or five months um met with a really nice club called cropston sign as that overseas started playing Cricket there really really enjoyed my game there because well two three things that are different in England versus versus India uh the conditions obviously uh a lot more overcast wickets are a lot Greener all games are played on proper TF wickets there's a most grounds have a slope one's downhill and one is uphill the ball is a lot darker it's called The

the ball is a lot darker it's called The Duke's ball we play with SG balls in India and in professional Cricket duk's balls are used the in Australia kabura balls are used but like I had never played with dukes balls um yeah so all of this was an extremely extremely interesting experience now I've played three or four Seasons I'm in my fourth season and is this club Cricket sorry what what like League or how does this work is it organized like it is organized it is it is organized by the ECB uh I play something called the Premier League it's called Uh so the counties handle it there are about six or seven Premier Leagues across the UK um which are feeders to County clubs um well you do well in Premier League um you get picked for second class and first class Cricket got so I play in leester I still continue to play in

leester I still continue to play in leester although I've moved to London um after my masters but like um yeah so that's how it's structured and is it every week or every month across the year or how what's the like Su dur it's a summer sport because it's Cricket so it's every Saturday from mid April to mid-september that's when Premier League crickets play 22 games uh especially leester it differs some some plac have 14 teams some place 11 teams some some Premier Leagues have 12 teams the league that I play has 22 games 11 home and 11 away uh structure is also different um in in the UK versus India by the way like and you're traveling with your team I'm assuming to all these like you just

I'm assuming to all these like you just show up at the opponent's ground well yeah that's what I meant but it's travel right because you're maybe in I don't know Brighton or something so that's likely inside of leer though it's a Le because it's the same county I see yeah so you're inside the same county and it's probably like a 30 minute drive away each of those grounds and then do all the like players family and friends make a spectacle out of it like are there usually people watching it's insane it's insanely good and there's a lot of affinity to to one's club like there are a lot of people who are retired who are really passionate about the club they're passionate about the club and the game well they they wear their heart on their sleeve in the sense that like if they they're close

sense that like if they they're close games that are lost people who don't play are really upset like how could we lose to this particular team right um you know how haven't we beaten this team um why are we you know if if you're in a losing streak for example right like somebody will show up at and each ground has a bar a very nice bar area with you know drinks on tap and like like it's really nice and culturally that's a difference as well in India uh well Cricket is almost like uh it's a lot more mechanical mechanical in a good sense though well it's like less room for errors I think is what you're trying to say in India perhaps yeah I guess I guess yeah but yeah culturally it helped

guess yeah but yeah culturally it helped me personally because well I had sort of thought okay maybe that's the end of my cricketing career it's not that I'm playing professionally but I'm playing a very high level of cricket which gives me stuff to do so I think that was the highlight of my masters I guess amazing and in terms of the academics itself what are looking back maybe one or two main core ideas that you took out of that those couple years that you know were the most impactful in terms of the things you learned whether or not it can be applied to Cricket or just you know about sports biomechanics in general but really trying to um you know boil that ocean of what you studied in two years into you know one or two

in two years into you know one or two drops and I know that's a very loaded question but I would appreciate any insight there yeah 100% I think personally for me it was getting comfortable with um writing code it's a key transferable skill that I I think I appreciate a lot although like there was a lot of programming involved in my undergrad I was very bad at it right like I could write code on sheets of paper and get away with you know passing my exams type of thing and that that's that's how a lot of people did as well true but what what what I realized um here in during my masters was that actually writing good code helps like and also like getting comfortable with with with programming in general I think that's where that's where it happened to me for a lot of people it's in year 10

me for a lot of people it's in year 10 11 12 in school for me it was a little bit delayed secondly I I think it also taught taught me how sort of it does not need to be so again coming back right like the the skills that I gained toward in my masters sort of helped me in in in getting Cricket revolution in a better shape but like there was nothing business or startup related that was taught in the course and there was nothing biomechanics related in my product that I was building but it sort of helped each other but mostly the course help the the product rather than the other way around so what I'm trying to say is another transferable sort of you know Insight from there is that it need not be related on face value but it

need not be related on face value but it could still help two things not be related on face value but it could still help so think yeah that's these are the two things that I guess are my biggest takeaways to beon yeah it almost sounds like you learned how to apply you know apply yourself to stuff that's maybe or may not be direct directly related to Cricket itself so so with that um I guess once you finished or you graduated what was the road ahead from there cuz I'm I'm sure there was still a decent amount of uncertainty because you know again you're in a new country not entirely sure whether you want to stay there or go back to India I know there was probably um like a sto MBA degree somewhere in there and then you ended up staying I guess so I'm curious to um you

staying I guess so I'm curious to um you know hear about your journey after graduating from your Masters yeah uh well my Ms finished in the in September of 21 I think yeah 3 years now and um finished and then well I was looking for things to do and on one day while scrolling Twitter I realized that this this this thing which is an MBA boot camp that a lot of people are recommending a lot of people who I looked up to were recommending so I was like what is this let me just talk to one of the founders so I set up a call and spoke to them with with a bunch of others on that call and I realized that look this is something that I'd be interested in uh and it was mostly stuff

interested in uh and it was mostly stuff around how businesses are built what what how do you get your first users you know what factors um are needed in defining your ideal customer Persona that sort of stuff right like which I hadn't learned in any that I had done before yeah I had done my master formally at least for yeah exactly and I thought it was interesting so ended up doing it it was about 6 months of rigorous I think on the weekend we had like 8 to 10 hours each on Saturday and Sunday Sunday um and during the week we had cases that case studies that we had to do and um I may be jumbling the format a little bit but you know for the most part yeah yeah

but you know for the most part yeah yeah but it was very very rigorous in the sense that I learned a lot of stuff that makes business is successful uh which I hadn't learned before um it could be in terms of how sales Works how negotiation Works how do the the how do Venture scale businesses what is Venture scale and how do Venture scale businesses exist How do they raise money you know how to get your first few customers all of these questions I I was super interested in the answers of but I didn't know how to you know get the right and one good thing about that boot camp was that they invited people from a lot of real world scenarios each weekend there was somebody from Ked coming or somebody from you know a VC coming and speaking about how their stuff works one

speaking about how their stuff works one weekend there was a there was an actual person who was a CFO or Finance person uh coming through and explaining how Accounting in early stages work and how Accounting in large scale companies work wow that's sounds incred yeah yeah it was really good and I was really good it was really good and I I'd recommend it uh I don't know how the course is now but if it is still the same I would recommend it what is it called again how would one look up look this up if they were interested it's called sta school I think they changed um yeah and it's founded by uh a few of my friends now Aaj K Linker adya Kar um and a bunch of others but if you

Kar um and a bunch of others but if you if you Google sta school I think you should yeah and I'll be also sure to drop that link in the show notes uh for for this for this episode and then so basically but when you were doing all of this you did you have an ulterior goal in mind like you wanted to make yourself more hirable more employable in the UK maybe or in India or was it really actually just you know to upskill yourself and not you know necessarily from an employment point of view well at that point it was to just learn what it would take to build a successful business um I had I was tinkering with Cricket Revolution even then we had started building the app um along with an agency at that point it was very very

an agency at that point it was very very sort of biased towards how do we get more users to Cricket Revolution how do we make it more uh you know interesting for for users to use how do we make how do we grow adoption um that sort of thing so those were the sort of that is what I wanted to extract from the course and apply directly there but there were a lot of lessons as well right like why something may not work right why is something cre not working how how how product management done in general like because well again my insight is on surface level I'm I'm flagging this straight up right I'm not a product manager I've never been you know an actual product manager in a large organization but how product

large organization but how product management works I can probably tell because of the fact that I've built products myself alongside people have collaborated with and I've also learned a bit about it in store so there are a bunch of other insights like this that I gain eventually ending up in in in us acquiring the first few users of cricket Revolution at that point but then the the actual Cricket Revolution idea sort sort of also evolved in that period where we realized that a product being building a product iteratively requires those iteration cycles and that does not happen with an agency right like you define scope and then they they sort of Del deliver and then that's it that's it right and like we needed that iterative process and we didn't have that capability internally but what we did

capability internally but what we did have was let's say the ability to coach cricketers so we like okay cool let's continue coaching cricketers and let's scale the business that way but that meant that I had to look for other things to do as well because well I I had decided to continue to stay in the UK so I started looking for things to do and not it's not a particular agenda right like I was like okay eventually I want to start something up uh that was my obviously always in my head um you know from a while ever since Cricket Revolution was started like I I really liked having built something of my own or with a with a bunch of people that I like working with so I was like cool let

like working with so I was like cool let me um let me look at what exists in the in the UK Market but the interesting part was that I was looking at roles which were business and business adjacent let's say um again product management which was very hot back then or a Founders associate or chief of staff or whichever role that helps me learn as much as possible from a business which is in in the early stages that I can apply to whatever I want to start eventually again well at that point I stumbled on different roles but the interesting bit was that the competition that I was competing against were like people who are graduating from Warick Cambridge lbs Imperial these are like literal pedigree you know names right like yeah I mean it's it's as good as it gets in the UK

it's it's as good as it gets in the UK at least maybe the US has like obviously better names but like right in the UK or in the on this side of the Atlantic in general I I guess they they are as good as as it gets so well I I lined up a couple of interviews for for Founders Associates and and and and stuff like that so I think I was competing against these folks and um I realized that well I needed to deliver on one USP and um well um that's what I tried doing and that was mostly in terms of trying to land as many Founders associate roles as possible um that's when I met Igor and mo Who real quick

when I met Igor and mo Who real quick just just a quick sorry to for the interruption but what goes into a Founders associate position like what are the skill sets that somebody needs to excel at that position yeah well I think a Founders associate is something is a role that you would do to sort of Shadow the founder initially and I think it's very case specific it's very uh company specific to Shadow the founder to sort of um take from them whatever they don't need to be doing so that they do the best at what they need to do um it's it's not you're not an executive assistant in the sense that they need to Outsource everything to you you are a Founders associate in the sense that you

Founders associate in the sense that you have the capability you're a chief of staff doing things right right or also understanding what needs to be done without being told that these things need to be done for example it could be let's say um a bunch of outbound that the founder is doing on LinkedIn that you could do yourself and the founder could probably speak to them and then you know the could be doing something else in that time I'm just giving one small example totally there are specific instances I think this is what a Founders associate is obviously different companies come up with different descriptions but it is people who can understand whoever they're an associate to to a degree where they can understand what can be delegated and delegated themselves and can be given

delegated themselves and can be given the ownership to have that delegation capability uh within them if that makes sense that's very suent yep no that makes total sense sorry but now you can continue about yeah how you came up came up to be co-founder at at Digger well first an employee I guess so um it was very interesting in hindsight yeah co-founder now but um met Igor and mo um from Digger they were looking for a Founders associate ended up applying to that Founders associate role um and it was very interesting so the first time I spoke to Ard was like he there was a role available I applied and then he messaged me on LinkedIn at 11:45 I don't think even we've discussed this uh by

think even we've discussed this uh by the way I just remember the story he he messaged me at 11:45 in the night and said hey I you opened to a chat I said cool thanks for playing are you opened a chat I said cool 11:45 in the night mind you and and I said cool right now and he's like yeah cool he's like this is out outrageously inappropriate we can do Monday if you want but it would be I'm sort of looking for people right now I was like cool let's speak and then he told me about the company what they were trying to do at that point dier was trying to build hiroku top like UI on top of AWS to simplify deployments and I

top of AWS to simplify deployments and I was like cool I'd be happy to contribute in whichever way possible he was like we looking for somebody to handle bizop sales marketing and growth because the team entirely consists of engineering folks who are deeply technical nerdy geeky very deep into the problem but we need somebody to grow whatever we're building as well that was the sort of JD essor and you had applied just online for this position or just just like 10 or 15 minutes before that interesting wow I had applied like with LinkedIn easy apply just 10 or 15 minutes before that um and um yeah I received that message and then on Monday I met them at wew work right like immediately like two days in I met them at weor and um it was

days in I met them at weor and um it was very interesting where uh the interview went very very well it was not an interview as such as much as it was a conversation initially on Monday by the way the good part about Digger is we've moved really fast and we've iterated really fast on Monday the job description was different on Friday it was uh it was Founders associate on Monday it was growth engineer but again it primarily was engineering growth for whatever exists as a product and um met them extremely extremely interested in what they were doing super passionate about the problem super passionate about hiring the best team well spoke about a few growth ideas in terms of what Digger could could do to you know get the first

could could do to you know get the first few users get some paying customers and that they already had four or five paying customers by then and well they gave gave me an offer and I took it as as Founders associate SLG growth engineer type of thing fast forward I guess I'm going to just experti the story a bit uh we the the company continued to grow uh we had a few pivots over over the next couple of years and um I think in February 2023 we pivoted to something which was the open source alternative to terraform Cloud because the the product surface area was this Broad and then we started shrinking it and here also there's an experience right is looking back at Cricket revolutions app that we were building too many

were building we were building too many things at the same time and I think even at Digger initially we were doing the same thing we were solving multiple problems where you know we were taking on secret management we were taking on cicd for terraform we were taking on you know containerization of whichever repo people had to upload so I guess we were solving like five or six problems and we realized there were multiple points of failure again same realization that I had at Cricket Revolution like a year or two later but now in a venture back company with multiple engineers and resources on hand which was interesting because iteration was much faster looking back at you know at Cricket Revolution comparing here iteration was

Revolution comparing here iteration was yeah and for that comparison to I guess make you know land even better can you like really dump it down for us what Digger exactly does like pretend five yeah what exactly does Digger what problem does it solve so Digger's current Digger what it does today after four pivots is it does cicd for terraform so essentially cicd is continuous integration continu deployment deployment um and um it does it for um for terraform which is infrastructure sport okay so essentially that's what dier does okay yeah that makes sense if you want me to put it in a sentence yeah I guess that's the simplest way to put it I guess in in February of 2023 we pivoted to this particular idea yeah we iteratively got so in the first few

iteratively got so in the first few months got a lot of stars got a lot of attention on YouTube got a lot of attention from from influencers in this terraforms Fe um and just continue to lean in towards that and in October I was offered to be one of the co-founders because of a certain because of a few internal changes that needed to happen at at Digger and and I accepted it and and ever since then I've been the co-founder of digger and so you went from growth engineer to co-founder yeah yeah it's pretty incredible man how does that make you feel not that how does that make you feel not much changes in terms of what I do though like um day-to-day is pretty similar I still handle growth I still handle business development I still do

handle business development I still do uh what whatever it takes to get new users to start using Digger um and retain them after they start using Digger and try to get new pay customers so this is what I do did back then this is what I do right now as well some added responsibility obviously because it's um more more at stake yeah more at stake obviously I I think it was not much has changed other than the fact that um I have a lot of gratitude that they had trust in me um to be one of the co-founders and I obviously took it as soon as they asked for it yeah that's that's the change that has happened and then I know you've been traveling a lot

then I know you've been traveling a lot off late so what's um your first time or I guess maybe I know you've been there a few times now but what was your first time in Bay Area like cuz I know for somebody that's so into Tech it's really you know the mecca of where you want to be I think well I had zero exposure to the US let alone Bay Area before that's true um uh and and going to the Bay Area really really opened my mind and I think that to be honest if anybody is building a venture Scale Company access to customers and access to Capital is the most in the Bay Area period nobody can

most in the Bay Area period nobody can debate it regardless of whatever people say and that's what my opinion is and that is the realization that I had right I went there um I went there for a hackathon as well like I I I participated in a hackathon just to see the vibe of how like how hackers just interact I I have seen a few hacker houses in the UK in London I've been to a few AI tinkerers meet up you you know I've been to a few hackathons I've seen probably watched Silicon Valley I have watched Silicon Valley I think we watched it together back in the day we probably did yeah yes yeah uh but I I knew how the Bara worked like in

I I knew how the Bara worked like in terms of how how nerds build stuff that people want and grow it to scale of you know ginormous scales like while seeing it in person I think I just was super inspired to be honest yeah I'm super bullish on the fact that we have access to it and that we can go there whenever we want and and and get access to customers also a lot of digger users right now are based there um not just the bay area but in large parts of the US yeah so yeah um I guess tldr would be that access to customers access to Capital is excellent Talent is insanely good um and ambitious ambition is genuinely inous in that in that zone I

genuinely inous in that in that zone I don't there's something about it to be honest so that's what that's what my realization was after going there that's that's so true I did want to close out with a couple questions the first being um I guess what what is the future would look like for you from this point like where do you envision Digger going like I guess just maybe even more so like where does your life go from here at this point well at this point I think in my in my head I'm constantly solving two problems personally it is um to help cricketers as much as possible professionally it is to get digger that's so interesting that you have it separate between personal and professional it makes a lot of sense

professional it makes a lot of sense though I it's just not something that that's why I on my on on every Saturday right I think for my sanity I I need to continue to play it I need to continue to help cricketers I need to and the only way that I'll do it is if I'm charging people for it like that's my motivator at the end of the day and that's what we're continuing to do like how to make fast Bowers the strongest possible that they can be so that we produce as many fast po as possible and I am subject number one because I want to test my programs myself I want to Bow myself I I take my speed gun to the Nets every time I go to the Nets and see

every time I go to the Nets and see what's improving what's not yeah that that's personally professionally I think I think um building Digger to a stage where it's default to life first and then on to you know the the defacto tool for people to use for terraform or open tofu um automation there are no numbers in my mind or anything I guess it's more yeah that I wasn't necessarily looking for a number on that yeah and and I guess to close it out my last question would be if if there were to be one theme that you know that you've found that your life trajectory has followed so far that is not Cricket because obviously Cricket is the theme right there it's like a no-brainer for anybody that listened to

no-brainer for anybody that listened to this conversation outside of cricket um what is the one theme that you know has been consistent for you throughout and that has helped you in your journey and just really the massively incremental jumps that you've made in your journey I think I I said this already and like I'm a guy who loves having fun and I just did whatever was the most fun at each time and I don't even think I've done the right thing like I probably have done the right thing in hindsight because there are multiple right things I guess and I think uh I think I did one of the right things and it was because I

of the right things and it was because I wanted to have fun at that point and I think continuously it's been yeah if not Cricket then it's doing the most fun thing possible at that point um which is incidentally helped become the right thing in hindsight but hopefully it's right going forward as well that's what I I I yeah I just love your ability to you know answer such a loaded question in you know such a simple um nonchalant way but and still in a way that makes so much sense because yeah you're right you did say that before and clearly your every step of your journey has revolved around okay what's the most fun um outcome here let's do that and clearly it's it's worked out yeah the right

it's it's worked out yeah the right thing to do is almost the like the right thing to do for you is almost always the most fun thing to do for you because well it's right because it's fun I think if it isn't then well yeah but yeah I mean sometimes I guess those decisions can be a bit more nuanced than that because you know absolutely it's subjective as well right like I know people who use Frameworks and stuff and still get there and it's amazing for them I guess uh but like personally this is this is how I think about it I guess amazing once again thanks so much to 12 today for taking the time and speaking with us and for all that you do for

with us and for all that you do for Cricket as well as all um the burning cricketers out there helping them I hope you continue to do that and I hope to see you continue to Excel and grow uh in your professional career as well thanks thanks thean thank you for having me that brings us to the end of episode 8 of The Ready said do podcast I trust that you found UT's walkthroughs of his decisionmaking process ESS at various points in his life Journey entertaining as well as insightful if you enjoyed this discussion the simplest way to support my podcast is by subscribing to my YouTube channel and leaving me up to a fstar rating on Spotify below the like button please feel free to comment any

button please feel free to comment any suggestions feedback or nominate any guests for the podcast if you would like to get in touch please reach out to my Instagram which is ready. set. do finally the quote for this week is are you doing life or are you living by Dale forehand thanks for tuning in new episodes every Wednesday