How to Build (and Scale) a StartUp - w/ Ritwik & Kartik

the investor would ask me that would tell me that Karthik you're the best judge because you handle entrepreneurs day in day out and you know Indians better than we do especially the foreign ones they say this so that's where the investor the founder perspective also comes into play right we know how they're thinking or how would they think uh if you're that go-to guy in that organization then you should know that you are uh you know ready to start up so that's one uh second is that um can you keep yourself self motivated so how we presented it in our newsletter was that okay the unicorns made a loss of 63,000 crores or they SP they they expensed of 63,000 crores but what good it brought was that it was pumped back into the Indian

economy welcome to the ready said do podcast where we discuss journeys of not experts who are just two steps ahead of us I'm Naman pande budding nonexpert and in this episode I'm joined by ritwick and karik Kor twin brothers ritwick and Karthik are founders of startup Indian which is a company that offers research analysis and financial expertise to investors and Founders We Begin our discussion by going over the twins journey to becoming a charted accountant the equivalent for which in the US is a CPA and how to avoid the numerous pitfalls that makes it such an uphill battle however the title of a CA empowers one to start solving real world problems straight out of the gate and we discuss how ritvik and KARK decided to go out on their own despite having numerous offers from various firms that

numerous offers from various firms that leads us to a discussion around entrepreneurship and specifically what are some traits that one should look at to determine if starting up is the right option for them next the twins shared their Innovative solution to not being able to solicit clients which was to write effective and immensely information Rich newsletters to drive that inbound marketing towards their company they demonstrate an amazing example of how they were able to add their own unique perspective to otherwise common news capturing the attention of investors and Founders that then flock to them for their services we then discuss their experience working closely with high net worth individuals and investors and some traits that they've seen are common within those individuals we also discuss how to scale

individuals we also discuss how to scale a company without losing sight of the present to tie things up we go over a Hidden Gem of a Work Management solution or tool that the twins share by and finally what it is like to grow up with another human identical to you this discussion is for anyone who has aspirations of becoming an entrepreneur or is interested in learning how to perform inbound marketing really effectively for those unaware inbound marketing is a digital marketing tool that helps you to attract customers by putting out really helpful content out there for them in keeping with our theme of learning from somebody that's just two steps ahead of you instead of an expert I'd like to emphasize that this discussion centers on RX and karthik's

discussion centers on RX and karthik's entrepreneurial Journey thus far and my goal is to really just highlight what goes into starting up and what type of a person does it take to do that effectively all sections are timestamped on YouTube and Spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts so now without further Ado my conversation Rik and karik welcome hi Nan hi thanks for having us now and having us thanks for having us now and great to be here cheers it's it's so good to have you here and good it's so good to have you here and thanks for taking the time So you you're both um CA Chartered Accountants I'd like to go over your journey um and just for our listeners the equivalent of that in the US is a CPA um however India has

in the US is a CPA um however India has a somewhat more um dogmatic approach to becoming a CA so I'm really curious to hear your um Journey around that because we hear so often that it takes people so long um sometimes to get there so what was that Journey like for you uh which was also you know the beginning of your professional Journey so to speak right so it all began when we came out of school and we sort of realized our core strengths and interests in Finance and Accounting and um it also had to do a lot with how inspired we were with our father who is also a charter accountant and um who was running a midsize firm uh who has been running a midsize firm

who has been running a midsize firm since 1994 and inspired by his journey we thought that why not we want to do this our elves and we want to come out as qualified Char accountants as well so that's how we set out on the journey straight after school uh we enrolled for the the tutions uh that's how it is we go for C CPT then we go for ipcc some a couple of years after and then apprenti ship somewhere in there I think yes yes and right after ipcc we have article ship uh which is uh three year um a threeyear compulsion for you to get workex uh in the audit tax or um or or any of the subjects that the ca has right and that has to be with the

ca has right and that has to be with the CF CA firm so that's how it started right so I would say like if you if you talk about why a lot of people struggle uh during the uh CA Journey well um to put it straight it's not uh for all kinds of people right so one has to first of all realize their for strength in the subjects that CA revolves around uh which is uh Finance accounting cost taxation right and uh if if they have that kind of strength then comes the more difficult part which is the mental stability during the entire journey of three to four years during which you pursue this course and by three to four years I mean the person who clears it all at once so for a person who is not

all at once so for a person who is not being able to clear it all at once the journey is even longer so mental stability throughout that period is of utmost importance uh even though you uh read or learn a lot during that phase the Final 14 days of the exams right uh when you when you actually take the papers uh you know the you you give all in all you give eight papers in the finals and you have to clear each one of them to be able to clear as a CA as a child accountant right so and it it is almost inevitable for one or two papers to be extremely difficult right so if you do not have your uh Cal

right so if you do not have your uh Cal after one or two difficult papers uh you bound to not do well in the rest of them solely because you're not motivated enough not because you don't know but because you're not motivated enough think if you would like to add something yeah any additions there yeah and I think so unlike an engineering or an MBA program where uh you know anybody who gets into it are bound to get out of it as a qualified MBA or an or an engineer so one can also choose to drag themselves through the process so unlike that the ca course does not allow one to you know drag themselves through the process and come out of it you will not

process and come out of it you will not become a CA if you're just being an average door there so you know that requires a lot of perserverance through that entire process to actually go through that entire course and come on to the other side it it also sounds like there's an element of you know Sun cost fallacy involved here like you've already spent four years doing this and maybe at some point along the way you're like yeah I I don't really want to do this this doesn't really make as much sense but because you've already you know you're that deep in you've done your article ship or are in the process of doing that and then you're like maybe it's just best if I stick through and that halfin half out mentality I think often must obviously hurt a lot of you

often must obviously hurt a lot of you know aspirant out there that's true absolutely n so I think it takes a lot of Courage for one to admit that okay this is a course that is not meant for me right and and what you mentioned that uh when when someone is going through that process and has given a lot of a few attempts they're like that I've come so far so I must be you know doing something wrong myself when at times it could be just that it's not the right thing for them and they should be trying something else instead so for both of you did you did you both clear everything just on the first go or was it at the same time or one of you got

it at the same time or one of you got there before the other how was that for you both so I would say thankfully so we did it all at once and all together uh been really devastating for either one of us I can imagine yeah yeah so and as no you asked that question I'm still nervous when I think about it that you know it would have been really something if it didn't work out as it did yeah and in fact I would say uh that really helped us as well having a peer as close as your own brother who pursues this uh alongside you right and also the closest form of a brother which is you know a twin a twin person that's true so there's a lot of positive

that's true so there's a lot of positive reinforcement during the course and like I said there is so much of mental pressure or the things that you have to juggle with allog together during the course uh if you have someone who's right there uh doing this alongside you you know there will be days where you wake up and you don't feel like studying or doing the putting in the hard work that the article ship course requires uh at that point if there's someone who you know gives you a pep talk and says no it'll be all right that really helps and I think that has really helped us both a lot or probably just works harder in front of you even that Moes I just going to say yeah if I woke up and saw my

to say yeah if I woke up and saw my brother you know grinding it out while I'm just lounging that would not sit down very well with me and I would likely also um jump onto that and you know start matching him if not you know trying to beat him so with that um you're both um CA now so what's next how do you go about deciding what it is that you want to do so so I would say it didn't come uh naturally to us that this is one this is what we want after qualifying uh to tell you honestly we also went for uh the institutes uh placements right after and we did get a lot of offers during those placements it all worked out well for us but after that when we had the offer on our table

that when we had the offer on our table when we gave it a thought as to does this interest us right uh does this um look into interesting to us in the long run do we want to really pursue this in the long run or do we have a different Vision alog together for ourselves and the answer was no so uh the jobs that we were offer we were not really uh we did not find it intriguing enough or uh find it interesting enough for our own personal development over the years so that's when we took the plunge that we also want to practice and uh you know when it comes to practice it gives you a

when it comes to practice it gives you a lot of Liberty to start creating and building in different directions absolutely so uh because we are a midsize C firm so we do not and because we have 10 Partners today so we we we specialize in all kinds of directions uh okay and by directions I mean it could be income tax GST company matters um inds International taxation Consulting startup Consulting um advisory Outsourcing all of those stuff and uh to tell you honestly in the first two years of our practicing as a CA we uh executed each of those that I talked about during the first two years itself and and much more there's taty audit internal audit stock audit physical audit so we did so much in the

physical audit so we did so much in the first two years itself and and honestly from day one itself we haven't looked back and uh challenge uh sort of reased ourselves if I had made that decision of going for a job would it have been better we really never looked back because it all worked out well very well for us so curious does the um actual path to becoming a CA kind of give you that the background that you need to perform all of these such diverse tasks that you were performing or is there an element of self-learning you know self upskilling involved in that I Alo that so I feel it's a combination of two n like you know so the curriculum is huge like we mentioned that uh you know there are eight subjects that you have to go

are eight subjects that you have to go through and each one of them uh the size of the curriculum like the size of the books could be like you know this much for each one of them right so that's pretty scary yeah I I mean I mean you they literally teach you everything within that subject so it's a lot of things put together however at the same time when it comes to practical uh you know implementation of all those things then of course learning is required and uh I would say that 99% of that learning is already available over the Internet for you right so you just need to plug in that theoretical knowledge that you already have and uh with that practical

already have and uh with that practical Insight that you can get over the internet from people who are already doing it and then you know start small probably so you could start you know servicing the smaller clients first and then you could you know make your way up to bigger corporates doing the same work for them interesting it almost sounds like what you're saying is you have like almost a boiler plate that's somewhat filled with information that you do know and then it's all about identifying what you do not know and hoping that it's it's not too much and then you know just kind of filling out those blanks as you you know work or move forward but really what I'm taking away is to start you know trying to solve those real world

know trying to solve those real world problems and you know putting yourself out there absolutely so uh n like uh I would say that the ca course in itself you know empowers you to understand that you can pick up so many things in the field of Finance right if you wanted to expertise you can expertise in so many things put together instead of the common myth that you can just do audit right as a chartered account so and it's building upon that so you first have to believe in yourself that okay I've already been through I've already done a lot of study in all these uh you know um areas and then you need to believe in yourself that okay I can build upon it and actually service to clients and uh

and actually service to clients and uh you know value add to them that's such a helpful perspective so what was it at around this time that kind of brought you to the you know Forefront of the entrepreneurial of your entrepreneurial um Journey so I know both of you and I've been following your posts for a while it's it's clear to me that it's something that both of you are really passionate about so I I kind of want to segue to how that particular Journey started for you um personally in that what brove you towards you know finding new problems to solve building things from the ground up and obviously all of the hard work that goes into that so maybe both of you can take turns cuz I

maybe both of you can take turns cuz I want to hear both your perspective like this Nam honestly the the entrepreneurial Journey that you're referring to or our entrepreneurial Pursuits uh is uh in a lot of ways stitched together with our CA practice okay so all that we are uh providing as service to our clients today in the especially in the startup space so just to take a step back and uh for our listeners just to tell them what the entrepreneurial pursu is that you refer to is um that we have created a separate startup specific division within our uh larger practice and there we service both to Startup investors as well as startup Founders in everything Finance

startup Founders in everything Finance domain right and uh so to investors we provide uh services like research and Analysis or sourcing of opportunities for Investments or due diligence in-depth evaluation of opportunities deal support and to uh startups we provide fundraise preparation fundraising uh we provide deal support again and uh and much more we even provide shared CFO service right so it's in a lot of way stitch together with our CA practice and that's because uh again like rck said the ca profession in itself empowers you to do so many things right so uh all of these evaluations that we do for investors or uh startup Founders or financial building of business projection or a financial model for these uh Founders all of these are being taught in the ca course

being taught in the ca course right so it's it's a separate division that we capitalized on it's a separate field that we capitalized on which the firm was not doing back then and we blew it up right so and how we blew it it up blew it up is that both of us ventured out of Kolkata we I came to Bangalore R came to Mumbai we set up our branches in Mumbai and Bangalore that's when we started networking with more and more investors and Founders in the startup space in all of the in both of these locations and uh we started speaking with foreign VCS foreign family offices and providing all of these services to

and providing all of these services to them as well interesting um and then were you focusing on overlapping things or were your focus areas separate and St um you know distinct so um honestly on the startup side the whole ideology is that the startups of today are the big businesses of tomorrow right that's true so if we aspire to be let's say Auditors or tax advisers to the big businesses today uh then why not take it um uh take a long-term Vision look at it as a long-term Vision start working with the startups today in the various areas that they particularly need help in like for example I told you the fundraise preparation the financial model the valuations ETC and as they grow we also grow along with them right so as they

grow along with them right so as they grow they become mature businesses their needs also mature and become more like what the bigger businesses of today need and that's where we also uh come in through our the the partners that provide all of those those services so if you ask me what makes it so appealing like you know self employment versus working for under somebody else it's like so if today morning you come up with a bright idea uh why not go ahead and just pursue it right build a team around it and pursue that idea so if I am convinced to pursue something tomorrow morning I can just start a new team or probably work on my off and start pursuing it all the more uh seriously right so that's the Liberty I

seriously right so that's the Liberty I get when I'm self-employed now second is I would say that uh it's beautiful to see how your earnings are directly correlated to the amount of hard work you put in very true right so uh the more time you put into it the more energy you put into it the more brainstorming that you're doing around your work uh the more earnings you get out of it and it's directly correlated it's it's really beautiful to uh you know see that every day coming about and uh finally I I believe that uh you know self-employment also allows you to be extremely flexible at work so so you can always keep putting your effort your time and energy into the people and

time and energy into the people and things that are uh you know the most important to you and your business actually builds around that right so that is something that I believe you know is is not at Liberty to somebody who's working uh at a job somewhere so uh I mean this is the added advantage that we get here absolutely and from both of your call outs I think there's a few things that jump out to me that I think are really cool which is that it really sounds like you just looked around yourself found out where you were and really made the most of that situation in every way possible to you know not just get started but to also build something that you know that is obviously still something that you're building and clearly enjoying to build

building and clearly enjoying to build um so it really just sounds like you you guys are just both um such good opportunists which is really such an underrated tra in today's world um so yeah I love what both of you called out there that um you had a thing going but there were Avenues to explore beyond that which you wanted to and that you were interested to so you just went ahead and did that and didn't have to you know sit around waiting for somebody's approval or um wondering if you you might not get the approval to ever do that and be stuck with things that you didn't want to do so amazing um so with that I I think I want to seg

so with that I I think I want to seg with just a little bit on um there this there's a lot of conversations online and I'm sure you would have seen this as well but there's a few traits that make somebody a good or you know a not so good entrepreneur like it's not something that everybody can go after or everybody should go after and I don't think a lot of people realize this it's almost always pushed as this yeah why don't you do that but really A lot of people aren't well suited for doing that so I'm really curious to hear both of your takes on you know that debate is is that true according to you and if so

that true according to you and if so what are some of those traits that um you know will take somebody far on their pursuit of becoming an entrepreneur that's a uh that's a great question uh because I've thought about it so often myself I would say that first of all that uh I mean some traits that I feel that one should look for uh to figure out if they can be an entrepreneur uh one is that can you get done so so when you're when you're self-employed you a lot of times you have to do so many things that you're not comfortable do U say for example if I talk about myself uh one are I'm you know on a call with a global heads of a company discussing an audit report and the other are I'm

audit report and the other are I'm probably re-editing my newsletter to make a print version out of it right and then probably I'm making a JD for my next hiring so it could be so many things put together so you have to fill so many shoes together and and if you're a person so I would say if you're working somewhere and uh if you're that goto guy in that organization then you should know that you are uh you know ready to start up so that's one uh second is that um can you keep yourself self motivated so um in entrepreneurship you're going to fail more often that you're than than you're going to succeed and I'd say that when you're failing that you're actually learning and so either you are succeeding or you learning right so can you keep yourself motivated enough to keep that

motivated enough to keep that perspective alive like for example if you're having a fight with your boss or or if you're having an angry uh you know feedback call from your customer so do you do you crib about it do you get frustrated about it or do you introspect and think about where did I go wrong and how can I improve so if you're that second type of person I believe that you can certainly you should certainly start up and finally I believe uh I think the biggest thing which I believe in so there's there have been so many times that have you know went to people and like hey this is such a crazy idea and I

like hey this is such a crazy idea and I talk about that idea with them and most of the people go like it's an amazing idea for sure but if someone could have done it then they would have done it by now right and and that perspective really really you know sucks out that magic out of the equation so i' say that call right so I'd say that if you believe in magic that is that if you believe that you can actually uh think about something that has not never been thought before if you can ideate uh something that has never been uh thought if you think that you can do that then then you are at the right place to actually start up what I'm trying to say is that that you're going to fail more

is that that you're going to fail more often than you succeed but you should have the courage to still think and ideate and if you have that courage then you you know you should definitely start up amazing that's that's such a that's up amazing that's that's such a great and well thought out answer anything to add there uh no I think uh very rightly put uh by rck uh nothing in specific on my mind right now so just to summarize um you said the three traits that would one should look out for is the ability to wear multiple hats the ability to not um get bed down by failures and then finally um basically I think you're you're you're referencing um 0 to1 by Peter thel essentially is that if you can build value from where

that if you can build value from where there is no value that's probably a great place for somebody to get started and you know just Dive Right In so with that um I want to kind of bring back on track here uh towards your journey back to um startup Indian so you referen that you were working with a lot of Founders um basically making a lot of new connections out there so what were some of the tools that you leveraged to form these connections was it more of a like inbound type marketing or was it more outbound were you cold reaching out to people um how that how did all of that look like in practice for you so um firstly like put to put it out there n

firstly like put to put it out there n that uh C are not allowed legally permitted to Market themselves okay they're not I had no idea so yeah a lot of people don't know this especially you know people in the business they wouldn't know this but that is the uh the cold truth that I'm very curious um why do you think is that I I just I have to ask so it's a profession right and uh and it's mostly because of the audit service that the Cs provide so you cannot because you cannot solicit audit as a service um same as a doctor cannot uh put up ads for their services right so it's just the same for the C as well

so it's just the same for the C as well because then a CA would come up and they would strike off they would show their prices struck out from maybe one lakh to 10,000 and people would uh flee to them but that's not how it happens and that and that is the single most reason why ca have to be creative in the ways in which they reach out to the prospective right and the uh and I would honestly tell you that this is something that I've uh I've struggled a lot to come to peace with that why I can imagine yeah yeah so as as a young person I want to reach out to as many people as possible with the quality services that we provide but we cannot reach out to the

provide but we cannot reach out to the people in masses just because of this uh legal thing and this is the foremost reason why we started writing newsletters um in the startup ecosystem of on the startup ecosystem of India and uh if you if you look at any of our newsletters our newsletters will never mention the services that we provide um uh to to Startup Founders or startup investors the single uh I mean the the best way the newsletter helps us is that it portrays to the reader uh the knowledge that we have on the startup ecosystem of India and uh this knowledge could be something as simple as as a Founder as a startup founder how much Stak should you dilute in a seed stage or in a series a stage or as a Founder where would you allocate uh your Capital

where would you allocate uh your Capital which is sitting idle in your bank account for maybe a temporary period or um as a business owner how does the value chain of Agri Tech U look like in India and which are the interesting areas you find uh which are the areas that are you know the wide spaces in the sector that you should probably capitalize on as a founder or as an investor you should definitely in invest in that space because that may be something upcoming and something that that can give you manifold returns so these are the areas in which we started writing newsletters this started back in 2020 um we also started doing podcasts with entrepreneurs with startup Founders uh right now our uh podcast is mostly focus on creating sectoral expertise and

focus on creating sectoral expertise and giving knowledge to our listeners to that particular sector about which we're talking about right now there's an AGR Tech Series going on so any investor or any founder that is listening to it can understand a lot about one specific part of the AGR Tech value chain of India so uh we we we use these tools to reach out to as many people as possible uh to showcase the kind of knowledge that we have and then when they reach out uh when they open our website or when they speak with us then they get to know the services that we provide to them and how we can add value to them so I think that has been our single biggest tool for us

has been our single biggest tool for us and uh in terms of you know reaching out to more investors or Founders when we came to Mumbai and Bangalore I think uh the biggest source for us has been going to the right events uh which are networking networking events especially focused on the startup space it could be something something very sectoral specific as well like a clean tech uh event that is happening conf conf conference that is happening right there uh there we get to meet a lot of relevant people that we talk to uh talk to we share our CS we share our contacts uh we we try to understand more about their business their problems and we try to tell them

their problems and we try to tell them where we can fin just a little bit addon on the last thing I I I I completely forgot word of mouth or referal right which is which is the topmost source for us for any professional in the in the industry right so as soon the the moment you start doing good work for anyone any existing client or a prospective client who came to you through another um uh client in another sector altogether the moment you start doing good work they would refer to you to anyone else who would who are in search for uh such Services right and these people are very loyal to us and that's how that's how it's always been and that's that's how we've always been able to build um our service line in the startup space so the

service line in the startup space so the in this the I would say the first CL that we started with back in 2020 after we started rolling out our newsletter is we're still working for them and plus um that so yeah I feel like first of all that is just such a huge news flash to me and it really sounds like um that makes it so much more difficult from an already clearly competitive industry in that you're having to put this stuff out that not only should has to be valuable and helpful but then also kind of just you know cross your fingers and hope that somebody outs there reads that stuff and you know derives value from it and it's perfectly okay if they

from it and it's perfectly okay if they just stopped there and that's the scary part to me because that doesn't always you know equate to them actually reaching back out so clearly your newslet letters must be you know checking the right boxes so I did want to um delve into that just a little bit what's your process like for performing research for I guess even to take a step back um even aligning on what it is that you want to write about because it sounds like you really almost have to put yourself in the shoes of somebody that might be reading your letter and for it to hopefully make sense to them so can you talk about uh your process around you know fine-tuning

your process around you know fine-tuning and also really just coming up with content for the newsletters yeah so to answer to you know uh the content that goes into it where we started and where we are right now uh I'd say that that um you know so it All Began so like Kik mentioned that newsletters is one of the you know most critical way for us to reach out to prospective clients so we started off uh by giving uh you know our opinion on regulatory updates that are coming in the startup space so back then in 2020 the government was releasing the data Privacy Law the the regulations regarding the drones or um or or or UPI was coming up or there were there were more more regulations regarding quick Commerce or delivery apps so all of that

Commerce or delivery apps so all of that required a lot of uh you know uh churning uh churning and telling our readers that okay this is what the regulations me need I mean uh mean for you as a as a startup founder or as an investor right so that's how it started as however as we progressed through the months um you know as we took feedback from our readers what we realized that what they most liked about us is how we churned uh you know Financial num and operational numbers of startups and the ecosystem in general and told them of told them our two bits of what was working and what was not right so then we started expanding on that thought process right so then we got access to more databases then we started doing our own research analysis and telling

own research analysis and telling readers giving our unique perspectives that you know which startups are good which are not which industry is lucrative which is not which valuations are looking you know probably to overhype or which is looking really lucrative um what are the what are good investors that are doing good great work for the ecosystem and things like that so yeah just to just to add on to it just as an example right so you would open up a news article Maybe by by The Mint or or or people who cover the startup ecosystem already uh they would say that unicorns are burning a lot of money and probably they spent about 63,000 uh crores in the financial year 2122 so how presented it in our newsletter was that okay the unicorns

newsletter was that okay the unicorns made a loss of 63,000 crores or they SP they they expensed of 63,000 crores but what good it brought was that it was pumped back into the Indian economy right and because there are so many unicorns today say suppose in e-commerce or Logistics or a fintech right that gave rise to so many other startups and uh that opened up so many avenues for our digital economy right so for e-commerce uh people would need digital marketing Services uh for fintech people would need SAS uh Services right so we broke down the entire 63,000 crores spent by unicorns and how it added to the Indian economy back into the Indian economy and how it helped our so that is those are the kinds of unique perspectives that we bring that's that's

perspectives that we bring that's that's so impressive to me the way you you you guys handle that and I want to call out that it it also makes so much sense now looking back that it almost sounds like you started with casting a really wide net um focusing on regulations because you likely thought that a general person or somebody that's just probably starting out would likely need to know that and then kind of just um you know use the feedback to again put yourself on the path that you you know that you heard that there was value in and just kind of continued there so yeah I think that intuitively makes a lot of sense to

that intuitively makes a lot of sense to me even though obviously clearly you guys are the experts around the numbers although obviously the example that you just gave karik was really helpful for me to um contextualize the the type of insights that you were putting out there because it really does sound like your unique perspectives uh was not something that was you know prevalent that much at least online or in newsletters as a whole so amazing um and then next it sounds like you guys then started to build that Cel base almost and have now accumulated a few various um High net worth individual as well as uh investors that you work with so I want to um talk about that a little bit what's that been like um I personally have I don't think I've ever met any hni in my entire life

I've ever met any hni in my entire life but I'm very curious to know that do they do You observe certain habits certain traits in the way they you know think the way they talk the way they respond to the information that you give you the way they provide you information um any call outs there in terms of you know what's your experience been like working with these investors and high net worth individuals right so um I would say the experience has been varied right and uh so there are individuals like you said the hni the high net worth individuals uh who would put in their money as Angel Investors into a startup right and uh there are VC funds or family offices that we also help with who would put in

that we also help with who would put in their money as strategic or just Financial investor as an Institutional Investor per and um like I said so there is a strategic category as well so an hni or a VC fund can also be a strategic investor right so I would say the nature of each of these is very different and uh it it also depends on the stage at which they come in right so for example one investor that we um closely worked with a couple a year back was an individual who was uh investing in a preed stage in a start and he was supposed to bring some Strategic Benefit to the startup so other than getting good significant stage uh in the startup he would also uh act uh as their strategic partner in a

act uh as their strategic partner in a lot of ways like helping them sell more of their products or uh bringing them the the right kind of connects in the industry so this person we seem to um uh notice that he was wanting to have a very close watch on how the startup is progressing or what kind of steps the startup is making or even what kind of decisions the startup is making to grow the business further is it uh that they're allocating a lot of their funds in inventory or is it that they're spending a lot of their funds to hire more people so they would go to all micro details of how the startup is growing because they have come in as a strategic investor and they've also got a board position in the company whereas on the other side you can also we've also worked with investors who would

also worked with investors who would simply come as a financial investor uh maybe at a series a stage they just want to be sure that the market is lucrative that the startup has created a very good solution in that market and they will get a manifold return uh from that startup so all of this thought process goes in before they invest after they invest they would have very little daytoday or a or even a monthly or a uh bonly look into their financial they would want an information right that you know gives them a a view of their quarterly data but then they would never get into the uh the the nuances of daily business so these are the VAR the variety of things that we see again strategic investors at an Institutional level or a strategic

Institutional level or a strategic investor at a foreign um a foreign strategic investor they would behave in a different manner there is one strategic investor uh foreign investor that we work with they would do huge loads of research and analysis on the market before they would even make a decision to invest in a startup so they want to be 100% sure that the market is very lucrative before they would even consider that startup for investment and did you ever feel challenged because of that like did it ever happen that your research you know collided or went against what they were seeing or what their research was so I would say that uh I personally love when I'm challenged on those lines when they tell me that no I think it's like this and I am saying a

I think it's like this and I am saying a some completely different thing maybe I go back to my drawing board and uh rethink or do more research just to find evidence either for their point or my point and it's it doesn't matter whether they uh come out as right or I come out as right because after all we are on the same side of the table Yeah but uh I I honestly love that challenge and that's where these strategic investors would really you know augment your or enhance your understanding with time as in as as you work more and more with them you really develop a deep understanding of how these people think amazing um and and then so I guess just some just out

and then so I guess just some just out of curiosity which of those groups do you like working with more because I think if I were you I would likely enjoy you know the working with the investors more because you know they're really just focused on that bird ey View and you don't have to you know haggle with them around that decimal percentage Etc so is is that does that kind of track or not really it's like uh well I wouldn't like to pick anyone Fair yeah yeah yeah because I mean we just have to put ourselves in their shoes and act on behalf of them so we really have to appreciate all points of view and U you know provide them assistance give I mean despite their you know risk uh appetite or despite their

know risk uh appetite or despite their uh extent of intrusion into that probably the the deal I think I I would add to it by saying that even I wouldn't pick any of those because both of them bring very different perspectives on the table and if only when you work with both of them will you be able to advise both of them in a better way right so and when we're working with a Founder uh the founder often asks us for advice like how much should I raise or which instrument should I use to raise should it be Equity or a convertible instrument and at that point I would use all the experience that I've gained on the

experience that I've gained on the investor side to give them the advice that is required of course it B it's based on their sector uh and the stage that they're in but the investor perspective comes in into play a lot and same for the investor side as well the investor would ask me that uh you know if it's something as simple as negotiating the value with the uh founder the investor would ask me that would tell me that Karthik you're the best judge because you handle entrepreneurs day in Day Out and you know Indians better than we do especially the foreign ones they say this so that's where the investor the founder perspective also comes into play right we know how they're thinking or how would they think that makes so much sense in that you cannot pick sides and you really have to make sure that you're checked

have to make sure that you're checked off on both sides of that spectrum because in terms of the value that you have to deliver you really cannot be picking that okay I'm only going to just do that or that and I think it's just an added bonus that I'm hearing that comes out of that because you you're just that better off an adviser as a consequence of you know being having that well-rounded um skill set so on that same note um how was um that scaling up experience so it it sounds like already from what you've laid out you've already iterated a few times you've gone back to the drawing board you know again a few times so what's your experience been like scaling up this you know scaling up startup Indian essentially because

startup Indian essentially because I think the question that we get most often is like okay I've started this I've it's you know autopilot self- sustaining how do I bring it to the next level so do you have maybe General insights around some things to look for when you're trying to scale up um a startup at a nent stage is it yeah I think um to put it in one word it's adventurous right so uh because because you're constantly trying to uh find find out what is working for you and what is not and scrapping of what is not working for you so that that constant introspection uh comes into play so because it's a you know Service uh organization we provide services to so it's not a product that we can

so it's not a product that we can manufacture um of a factory and we can multiply so because it service our biggest resource becomes the the human capital or the human resource that we are able to gather with time and I would say this has been the most challenging aspect for us as well to find the right people that that that who who can work on this with us and who understand the perspective that we have and who also bring the combination of skill set that we want so we are start uh building startup enden with the combination of research and Analysis and financial expertise so uh and this is the reason I would say it has been most challenging for us to gather the right kind of people for this because there are not a

people for this because there are not a lot of people who are willing to or who bring that skill set into the phame and that's when we realize that if we have strong training modules built in then we will be able to scale it up at a me uh at a good pace and in a meaningful manner so that's how we are sort of tackling this uh this challenge that we face of uh of of people that we want to uh we want to have on board with us so we we would hire someone maybe fresh out of a b school or even an undergrad college and we would take them through a very distinct and a very uh comprehensive training module that gives them the knowledge all around in the

them the knowledge all around in the areas in which we are working and that's when we start plugging them in in our work and sort of scale this up so right now the team that we have that is that may be enough for the kind of the the number of clients that we have but as in how we get more and more um uh leads we are wanting we are building uh up in this direction such that uh so that we are able to meet that next level of demand like you said so interesting um so you're saying you don't just exclusively hire CA you're saying you you hire really um anybody that has the analytical um skill set to match abely

analytical um skill set to match abely Absolut what you're interesting and what are some things that you look at um you know before you put somebody through that training module because it does sound like you're expecting this person to at least be analytical but also you know in addition to that where a few different hats have an open mind have that Zeal towards learning how do you glean off of that all of that from um you know a piece of paper or even an interview if if you guys are the ones that are taking the interviews I'm curious yeah yeah absolutely so we are uh we're doing everything from top to bottom I would say okay and I think the first first layer of filter is that we

first first layer of filter is that we as them to read one of our newsletters and give their two cents on it that's so smart and that's actually so smart we would also sometimes ask them to read about a particular sector say suppose we're doing a lot of work in Green Tech like clean energy or uh climate technology right so we would ask them to uh read about it and then on the next call we would ask them everything that they've understood about that sector so this is the domain knowledge or the uh industry knowledge that we expect them to come up with in those one or two days that we give them right this only asks them to you know be analytical and

asks them to you know be analytical and give us something you know out of the box or you know make sense out of what we've asked them to do with that task of course that that has to be coupled with the skills that it requires like you know knowing Excel or knowing how to work with ppts or uh knowing what how how valuations are to be done or projections are to be built but yes the analytical part of it we can judge from these aspects I would say and maybe some some smart questions that we asked during the interview so with that um what's some of the goals that you have in mind for the future of startup Indian to take a step back do you have goals that are say a

back do you have goals that are say a year from now I want to be here 5 years I want to be here or or is it just more of an ad hoc um just this at the end of this month or just this particular project I want to check this off make sure I do my best for this particular client so do do you guys view this in terms of you know tangible quantitative numbers uh in terms of goals or is it more of a qualitative let's live in the moment do the best job we can uh and go from there um I think uh it all started with it's a pertinent question right and

with it's a pertinent question right and it all started I think six or eight months earlier we were um I was in a uh conference and I think R was also in a conference in Mumbai and uh there was a goal setting exercise that uh that the gentleman there was making us do and that's when and the whole purpose of that exercise was to make us entrepreneurs realize that goals are very important and that's when Rik and I got together and we're like yes we need we need the goals uh we need very specific goals that we are targeting maybe six months down the line four months down the line 12 months down the line and where we're headed so yes we did go back to the drawing board we did pen down what all we want uh to achieve

pen down what all we want uh to achieve and I think R you can throw some light on some of the things that we' have aspired to achieve uh well we set out to Target that we're going to you know revamp the website and uh make it more uh you know you know uh more aligned to the perspective of investors and startups so we ended up doing that uh I think last month so we completed that so then then uh we also set out goals that these are the number of startups that we want to actually you know work for uh we also set up numbers for these are the number of investors that we want to

number of investors that we want to reach out so yeah I mean we we're working on on all those fronts and uh awesome yeah so goal setting like Kik mentioned that um you know it's very important to put the numbers very clearly in front of you because at times you have a very clear vision of the uh you know of you have a very clear view of the end Vision but then you don't know how to reach that so you need to have yard sticks that you can measure your performance with so it's very important to put clear number numbers onto each of your uh you know onto each of your functions and you know find out a way so we good with numbers I feel

a way so we good with numbers I feel that that's where we coming from that uh that's what we do that we try to convert every uh every goal that we have into numbers so that makes it easier for us to pursue it and to have you know see it very clearly that where we are Vis where we want to be and uh right now I think the single biggest goal uh that we're chasing right is to so there there are already a few foreign investors that we are working with uh and uh the need gap that we're serving there is that these investors are wanting to invest into India they're seeing the India growth story but they're sitting outside India so they want someone who can bring that

so they want someone who can bring that India perspective the onr knowledge and help them to firstly find the good opportunities and then also to evaluate it in depth and up to right up to deal closure right so that's where we step in we're already doing it for a few investors sitting outside India this is what we are chasing very aggressively now where we want to scale this up and we're targeting we we have a goal of at least five more investors in this year itself wow that's that's so cool to me to listen to how you are personally you know driving the India growth story forward um also related on the topic of goals do you use any um Work Management tools uh at all all or do you have any

tools uh at all all or do you have any recommendations for a size of your firm or a size of your company um is there any work management tool that you have in mind because this is a question that I do seem to get a lot CU there's so many of them around do you have a personal preference I would say R would thank you for asking this question because he's the point person for all of these Tech that we adopt within the firm and work together so I'll let him speak so I'm most obsessed about you know managing the workflow more efficiently because the larger the team gets the more complicated it becomes if you're not working on it from day one right and and uh yeah we are using a workflow management tool in fact it's a startup

management tool in fact it's a startup that we uh met in a networking event so they were there to yeah they were there to pitch their workflow management uh software that they had developed and U well they were there to raise funds what I could at least oblige them with is becoming their one of the early customers and I've been really impressed by the work so far it's been probably two years now it's called superwork uh.com right now so yeah I mean I mean it has been able to solve all my complex so I mean I just to give you a personal uh you know background so I like I said I'm obsessed with the idea of workflow

I'm obsessed with the idea of workflow management and have doing it the most efficient uh way possible and before super Works have tried 10 different applications at least uh over the months and in fact that includes something like Microsoft teams as well and I've struggled with all of them but super works is something that I've never found you know complain with that's such a glowing recommendation I'll be sure to uh leave a link for you know the their website in the show notes um and yeah as somebody that also shares your enthusiasm around Building Systems using workflow management softwares it's just yeah a question that I come across a lot um not directly because I'm not actually

um not directly because I'm not actually you know building a company like you guys are but I've worked with notion I've I've used um what are some other ones Asana I think that is a big one right now and yeah all of them seem to just you know have that they lack just one thing or the other that makes it not that makes them not want to recommend them for you know a GLE person so um that's really all of the questions that I wanted to cover from um a professional standpoint I am although really curious to hear um what are some underr features of growing up with a twin um what are some things that people don't realize

some things that people don't realize because it's to me it's just something that's so incredible you know it's just honestly such a freak of nature to that this is a thing that you know happens in on Earth so do can you share any maybe experiences or just something that comes to mind uh what's that been like for you you want to go first I think um one one advantage I would say that being a twin has is that it's it naturally has gives you a very high recall value right so interesting uh especially if you approach people together be it you know even even a client right in today's in today's age um and this I'm talking about with my experience in school or in

about with my experience in school or in college as well but right now if I talk about the real world and if I would go to a client and say that you know sorry I'm sitting in Bangalore and sitting in Mumbai and we're both twins they're like oh wow that's great and they would always remember the twins that pitched to them so it gives us a very natural high recall value and I would say it's a blessing in it's not even disg it is a blessing for us yeah and um to add to that so one thing is that so we started

that so one thing is that so we started living separately like you know me seeing in Mumbai and he seeing in Bangalore since the last uh two years until date like like every time I look at a Pizza in my mind it's automatically divided into two okay so just to give you an idea so that's how being a twin is like that you have to share everything from day one forever so so you know and and it's so you know it's deep wired into us now that uh you can't just look at it any other way you guys are both such a great presence um together it's it's honestly just a joy to you know just stand here and and watch you talk and to go back on the

watch you talk and to go back on the theme of you being opportunist I I just want to call out that I'm not shocked perhaps that you managed to make even this uh you know turn even this into an opportunity where you're using that for that greater recall value to make sure you get that call back from you know those people that you're wanting these call backs from so really really appreciate your time today um and I'm really um you know excited to see where you will take start opinion to and very very excited about your future thanks thanks someone for having us thank that brings us to the end of episode 6 of The Ready Set do podcast I hope you were able to appreciate and glean value from that discussion if you like the discussion the easiest way to support

discussion the easiest way to support the podcast is by subscribing to my channel on YouTube and leaving me up to a festar rating on Spotify if you would like to get in touch with me to nominate guests or if you have any feedback I will leave my Instagram handle in the description perhaps more applicable for this episode than any of the others it is indeed remarkable to me that you can get so far from just having that attitude of Ready Set