How to Choose Between Duke and Purdue MEM in 2026 - w/ Fiza & Bhushan transcript

If you're stuck deciding between Duke and Purdue MEM, this episode here has answers to all the questions that are not mentioned on either program websites. My guests today representing Purdue and Duke respectively are Bhan who is a production analytics intern at Tesla and Fiza who is a systems product specialist at Steel USA. I brought them here today to take us through first of all what MEMM actually is and who is it for. Why Purdue 12 month co-op, the thing that the program is the most famous for is no longer a Purdue specific thing anymore.

Even Duke has started like co-op since last year. Another thing also about Duke is like you can do a part-time internship. Whether Duke is worth twice the tuition answered by a Tesla intern who picked Purdue and would do it again. ROI would can be also not money specific. It can be connection specific and I would always choose Purdue again. And finally, the way I picked my own MEM program, which is exactly what I'd warn you against right now. Everything was about ROI for me. And obviously, as we've realized, that's really stupid. Fizza, welcome. Hey, nice to meet you.

So, yeah, obviously we have a bunch of ground to cover here. It's the battle of the MEM schools. And obviously for most people that are watching, it is clear, at least to me at this point, that Duke and Purdue are not only the greatest MEM schools in the US, but at this point probably the world. as it happens, I know that the two programs are just fundamentally different in a lot of ways and it's not even really an actual apples to apples. But having said that, this is still a decision that, you know, hundreds of students make every year.

And so my goal with this episode, obviously, as I was sharing before, is to help inform those people make those choices. Let's maybe jump in with a quick twominut overview of maybe when you started, when you graduated and what you've been up to since you moving to the US. So, Fiza, do you want to kick us off there? Yeah, sure. So, hi everyone. I am Fazar Pat and I started with my masters of engineering management at York University uh back in August 2024 and I graduated in December 2025 and currently I am working full-time with Steel USA assistance product specialist. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Bushan, do you want to share your spiel? Sorry. Yeah. Hi. Uh my name is Bushan Toule. I joined Purdue University in fall 2024 I think and uh I'm still in college uh and it's been I think uh two semester in college and the sec like two

semesters of college on internship. Yeah. So I know we'll be double clicking on that co-op piece uh in here in just a second but I guess right off the bat you you both started around the same time sounds like and I know that the Duke curriculum itself is meant to be for 9 months. Is that right visa? So tell tell talk talk talk to me about that I guess does that make things harder easier is that something you were choosing or is it just how it is uh in in in the case of Duke. Okay. Um talking about Duke um we have the flexibility of completing our course basically in two semesters uh or like three semesters or probably if you want to extend for four semesters. So that's usually the case and most of the people complete their core courses that is four electives uh and like four which are the core main courses and in the two semesters and

then you decide if you want to continue beyond like two semesters. Interesting. Yeah. So that actually also sounds pretty similar to how Purdue goes where it's generally people take at least up to one and a half to two years but that has that co-op thing baked in which we will get to. So I guess to take a step back and it's funny because this question applies to me as well but when you chose to do MEM right let's even take a step further back from DUP Dartmouth whatever right talk to me about your decision to do MEM in the first place right what was it about the MEM degree that made you choose that over the usual suspects usually are MBA there's business analytics I feel like those two are the like biggest or closest courses that come up to that so why not those things and why do an MEM and feel free to jump in whoever wants to go first

I can go I think my blunt answer would be it's the in the name right it's called masters of engineering management so depending upon that a lot of things get defined in terms of the colleges that give this course and offer this course in general so MBA normally would talk about masters of business administration which is heavily business side uh so if you segregate it there a lot of things would get eventually clearer for anybody who's looking to choose between between things and business analytics. It says business analytics but it's majorly heavily on the analytics front and how you're using analytical tools right now to use and apply to the business systems in companies that come across. So that's like the first pro first thing that segregated it out for me personally. Uh FA you have any thoughts on that?

Yeah for me I guess story is a bit different. I wasn't even considering nm as a course. I was focusing on MIM but I realized that it was more on the management side of things. I wanted to be on the tech side of the things and also have like certain management kind of experience not exactly do the development. So that's when I got to know about MEM as a course which allows a blend of engineering as well as it's called as MBA for engineers. So that was like the perfect thing I consider.

That's a great call out actually because now that you say that I realize that um MBA and the business analytics are probably still closeish but you're right the MI mim and I think there's also MIS I think are even closer to the MM so I'm actually full full disclosure not fully aware of the differences since this is something you looked into FISA are you able to share a little bit more about how these things differ are they usually the same or are there any core differences differences yeah so you'll specifically offer like they have an um MMS or like management studies program and like then there's MEM program. So that's what I was considering first and I have had a few friends in that like who did MMS program or like MQM program from the business school. So the main difference that I saw personally was it will focus more

like on finance uh operations and the curriculum also seem more around that less more like related to technical stuff or like closely related to technical stuff and since my focus was more on product management in general so that seemed like a great choice like choosing MEM where I could have my leverage my engineering background and also brush up my uh management side of things. things. So this is actually I love that you brought that up because this keeps coming up as well and I was asked this by multiple people as well. Why not just do a masters in product management is that just way too niche and again I'm just like trying to yeah get your POV because this is something that I'm sure you would have heard this question as well by juniors and such.

Yeah. So for me in general like if you're looking for specifically for product management if you come from that background have that relevant experience it makes sense for you to choose that like you are sure short sure aware that this is what you want to do as a career so choosing that would be great and I'm sure you'll learn a lot about product management but if you are unsure like you don't know if you really want to get into product management because there are a lot of different fields that you can get into after pursuing masters of engineering management like projects, supply chain, operations, product marketing. So that gives like lot of different doors. Yeah. And opportunities. That makes sense. I know that you mentioned most of the biggest one, but there's even like the mechanical/ civil engineering stuff that you can also get

into if with the doorway of the MEM degree. So that makes sense. Yeah. It's just Yeah. flexibility, right? Ultimately. And it's just good to have that if you are coded that certain way. Um talking about applications. Yeah. Go go ahead. No, I was just adding on to that. You also mentioned MIS and MISM. So that becomes very information sideheavy. What I mean by that is again I'm trying to keep it clarity wise. So I'm just trying to keep it masters of information system management. It means that again it's a blend of product management in a way for product side of things or analytical side of things or software side of things. So if you just look look at MIS it's going to tell you information systems which means you'd end up being a software engineer.

All of my friends have done that and all of them have become a software engineer because the core courses is where it wherein you differentiate like the course college allows you to take core courses right you have to take them to graduate. So that changes how the college's operation actually works and what it should stand for or what it does stand for. Just wanted to clear that up. But yeah, go ahead. That's awesome. No, and I love that you interjected and yeah, let's please keep doing that more because you know that's how you know that it's actually an engaging conversation. So yeah, love that uh addition. Yeah. So as I was saying from there um yeah, talk to me about admissions, right? So Bushan I know in your case you had at least a few and then again this is just I realize the danger of spending too much time on

this is just that it's just so subjective right ultimately everybody's situation is different everybody wants different things so I get that right that is like a big fat asterisk that will be there but having acknowledged that um talk to me about what your admits were like and then what were your specific circum irstances slash reasons for choosing Purdue uh I think it was very simple my background was supply chain uh let that be analytics or business intelligence does didn't really matter I was like okay I want to I see a future of mine in supply chain what's the best school that is there who can give me MEM because I wanted to stick to MM we've clarified that uh again because I wanted to make sure that I was also doing analytics I was doing supply chain and I was doing management which is all of it and Purdue

is very technically heavy because it is very indust industrially different uh given the location that it is in and the brand that Purdue has made. So I think these were a couple of reasons when I was like okay this is the best fit no doubt and I did have admits from other colleges but then the segregation is something that we've already covered and that's exactly how I did it. And then so in your case you're trying to say that there was actually no other admit that you had that was giving you that blend that you were looking for which was in your case supply chain with a heavy analytics plus management background. Is that right?

Uh yeah, I would say heavy industrial background which is per you analytics and all I did that in India. So that was just an added benefit for me personally. personally. I see. So that would have been common irrespective. That makes sense. FA what did it for you? Why why Duke? So for me uh when I thought about NEM program like when I got to know uh I came across Duke uh program like NEM program and that's when I decided that if I want to do MM that's going to be the university I want to pursive and there are a couple of reasons uh because I didn't want it to be like very cons or I had like a blend of other things that I can you know build my track around and that's like a good thing about uh so not very qu heavy and have a balance of the courses that I wanted to focus on. So my major area was product management and eventually it was

around uh customer experience or like UIUX. So that was another reason that I was looking for courses which were around like product management and build my profile around it. So I think that segus really well into the next section here which is just around curriculum. So talk to us about how the new curriculum works. I know actually all I know from when I applied and got rejected was that there's a few different tracks. There is that product management track. I remember there being an entrepreneurship track. Maybe I made that up. Um so yeah just talk us through how that works and like just in practice especially how the curriculum affects your time while at Duke MM. Yeah. So the core courses that we have to take are core electives we don't choose it are like finance management uh there's IP law and uh some courses

like that. So but beyond that if you are free to choose the courses that you want to take. So there like you mentioned there are product product management track there's customer experience track there's entrepreneurship track analytics track or there's also like build your own track. So it's not like you have to follow that specific track. You can choose whichever courses you want and accordingly decide where you want to take your uh career path to so I had if I have to consider myself like the four electives that I took were like design thinking then there's customer experience AI and product management and uh challenges in design thinking. So if you see all these courses, it's blend of product management and customer experience. So that's what I did and uh these allowed me to particularly focus on the aspects that I was looking for

like accordingly everyone else build their profile. That makes sense. Help us review the actual content/quality of these courses. Right. So do you think they were mostly really good? Did did you learn a lot or were they more just like checking boxes? Just talk us through your experience with the actual learning that came about with the track that you chose. Okay. Um the courses like design thinking and innovation. It's one of the most famous courses at York University like MA program. Uh literally we have like two classes in that one semester with different time slots. So that that's how popular it is and it's like you actually work with a client and uh you're given a problem statement you have like a team you work uh it's like an actual real world scenario you're given a problem statement you work have

like weekly meetings like discuss about it what's progress and have that workflow around like design thinking. So we have a theory component as well as uh a practical component to it and eventually you present something about how you have solved that problem. So things like that um have been really helpful like understanding the practical elements. elements. Cool. Um Bushan what was it like for you in terms of the Purdue curriculum now?

So it's very similar like again I'm going to say my thing first and then make it generic. So my thing was industrial heavy. So my core is industrial engineering. So the the credit system at Purdue is like you need to take three courses it of three credits each uh from a core of the entire course structures or AC across uh the engineering colleges right and then you can do whatever else uh with the 27 21 remaining credits in those 21 remaining credits there are also courses which you can take from uh CS electronics backgrounds electronics engineering uh courses and stuff is why I said that it's very uh very very flexible in terms of what you want to build out of your curriculum. It can be product heavy, product management heavy like we recently got in couple of courses for product management, TPM courses and stuff like that. And uh

talking about supply chain uh we also have these kind of things wherein we work with industry partners and companies and work on a real problem that they're facing and give them a solution via a course or else you can also across clubs do it with the uh curriculum. But again the industries are very different like major of the industries that we had were again industrial engineering companies uh the accessibility is easier for us uh for Purdue people. So I guess the biggest maybe contrast that I'm picking up is around the structure itself of these tracks you know that Duke has. So now if I'm a student and if I see on the website or wherever that here is your PM track and if I have aspirations to go be a PM, I'm wondering if it just makes it that much easier to then just have this. So like this is a railroad track that's been

laid for me. All I have to do is just walk it and you know I'll be fine. So how would you guys I guess just going off of personal experience kind of rate that right? Is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? Do you like the flexibility of there not being predefined tracks at Purdue Van maybe to kick things off? So I think in that scenario the thing is right that I feel like then you just need to pick a course like a different course don't use MEM then say if you want to do business analytics just take a business analytics course like because if you're anyways going to do business analytics then the course duration changes business analytics at Purdue is 9 months MQM at Duke is 9 to 11 months because I have friends from MQM at Duke so if you are focused on that then use that like a couple of people who told me and I think one of them was

you as well Naman who told me that okay if you want MM you better be sure that you're going to get all the flexibility but make sure that you are very very sure as and when you go ahead that you keep taking courses which are going to build you a according to the market that you're going into so again it's not that easy it's a blend of couple of things for me personally I would also say look at where the market is going and then choose like you can choose MEM but then where is the market going look at those things and take courses according I mean I would love to hear what FA has to say about that yeah I was actually going to ask her that do you have any friends that ended up not picking a track that kind of kind of just ended up freestyling it so to speak? Is that common?

Yeah, I mean the tracks are just there and like okay if you want to focus on this this can be the courses you can take. So no one really takes those tracks like that seriously. everyone like builds their own track and based on like what their friends are taking what courses and it's not and probably those courses are mostly related to MEM but beyond that like you can take courses across Duke like from Fuka if you want to study or from an AR program like I took course from like master of AI um engineering program so you can build yeah so again how you want your profile to be that's I just want to add yeah I I mean I just want to give you another perspective before you make a conclusion. conclusion. I recently got someone who reached out to me on LinkedIn and then the person said that okay hey like I'm confused

like I have admits from business analytics mem and stuff and I told him couple of things one was okay so he worked at an agri startup uh but in an SD format and he had another admit from a different course at CMU. Oh wow. So I was like and he was comparing it between MEM Purdue, MM Duke, Dartmouth etc. Right? And I told and I diverted him to the right person but I only asked him one question. What's your goal? Where do you want to be like in the industry or the role? Do you have that clarity? M so when that happens I think it gets very easy to segregate across but if you if your goal is okay let's assume Duke right I was crying for Duke for the longest period of time because I applied it twice and I didn't get in the first time and the second time I just changed my mind but the point it answers your question

that I asked myself in the second time that hey what do I want to do like I was crying for it because of the infrastructure I've been to Duke I love Duke and stuff so I was like infrastructure is pretty good people are good alumni is crazy but is that going to solve what I'm looking for and I think that is what someone should ask themselves because the minute you get into the program and you've you're here of course for sure it's a very good point and I think it's very interesting because I definitely did not have clarity when when I was in that place the thing that worked out really well for me is that I did not have the luxury of a choice when it came to my decision that I got one admit. So that decision was already made for me, but I I really like what you laid out there. In your case, Fiza, did you have a pretty decent

idea that you wanted to do PM type stuff under the umbrella of MEM or was that something that came to be after you already moved to the US? Uh my journey has started like I decided that I want to do my masters first back in my undergrad itself like second year or something I knew I wanted to do that that but I wasn't sure like what domain to pick I wasn't aware at that point like what I wanted to do it was only one thing and I was like if I have to go for my masters I have to build my profile for it and like accordingly so it then afterwards I discovered like okay I want to get into product management and since Then I started building my profile like internship. My full-time experience even before coming to US is in product management. I worked as an APN. So I had like prepared for like after what my journey is going to look like here. I

prepared for it even before coming here. Interesting that. Yeah. I mean I can definitely relate more to that than um Bushan's experience. If only we were all so um you know clearcut in terms of our career aspirations. No, hold up hold up. I don't want this on on my plate. But okay, another interesting thing or like a tangent here is that if you decide to do MEM and but you have a good experience like your background is really really good like like FZA mentioned that she had product experience that sets you apart because you already know what you're going into but in that if you want to go like okay I I've done product management do I want to do product marketing do I want to do product design is where you can come in and go like oh you can do these courses and take these courses learn along with it and that's when I agreed with uh a

couple of other people when I was choosing my courses and they were like okay cool you have analytics you have supply chain you want to do more things you want to do manufacturing production so I you can divide it this way as well and just go like okay I can probably go into production analytics literally what I'm doing right now at my internship at Tesla and it all aligns like literally what Frisa said I think you need to align it but a little bit of flexibility is where MM can come in and be like okay but you need to be sure which college adds you the most benefit so this is not a conclusion that I was trying to make. But are you guys just telling me that it really doesn't matter that much? Is that what we're getting at?

Cuz it is sounding like that a little bit, you know, unless I'm just having a completely different conversation than you guys. But maybe maybe by the end of the episode, we'll have a different idea. But so far, I guess it's been very interesting, at least for me. So yeah, this this next section is is called behind the hype. So I'll be sharing like three things about each of these universities and then it will be up to you to either agree, maybe be neutral or disagree when it comes to those things.

This is just a perception that's out there. This is not my opinion. But jumping right in with um with Duke, it's known to be extremely brand driven. The elective tracks are broad, which we kind of did already cover that. And there's almost like a product/pm focus for most people that go to Duke for MEM. This is the notion that exists outside of Duke MM circles. So yeah, Fizza, what are your thoughts on those things? I would say if people consider L Duke, they would think product in general or like people get influenced like into product. But I do know there are a lot of people who get into supply chain operations or product marketing. The number might not be like that significantly high because majority of the people I know or even in the past have got into product but there are other fields as well where people are

getting into but maybe not that aware. Interesting. Yeah, that's already more than what's you know at least publicly available. Um for Bushian we have it's the it's you know the big famous flagship co-op model. Um one year versus two-year trade-off and the engineering depth. Those are the things that it's famous for. Would you mostly agree that these are facts or myths? Yep. Yep. Yep. All all hardcore agree at least depth. Yeah about that. Yeah. So I feel I have talked to a couple of other MEM students at Duke and other colleges uh and they've told me that the depth uh if someone is new to electronics for example or someone is new to AI colleges you need to look at how the course structure is what the what are they trying to teach you and how much is that going to help you because with Purdue there are courses which will take

you to the end of the well and you would still keep going you're like oh this is interesting it goes keeps on going but do you really need that you need to always prioritize that with uh the courses that you're taking so in that perspective the only college that I have come across which is and the MEM course at least with Purdue gives you flexibility to go go in any sort of depth that you want uh you can go and do your own kind of a project wherein you're creating your own startup sure go ahead there's a course right there you can use it to its fullest do whatever you want and that's the flexibility that pertium gives me and is what I was saying that I wanted to go supply chain.

All of my courses are majorly industrial engineering because I wanted to learn what what it is, what they do, additional things, pilot pilot on my resume and I have learned a lot uh in terms of courses and there are insane co professors at Purdue and uh all that I've received from them even no matter how tough the subject has been is just help no matter if it's at 2 a.m. or 7:00 a.m. doesn't really matter and they'll do anything to go beyond uh to get those uh industry connects with you if you want them to be and it just goes on from there. Amazing. Fizza, what was the thing that surprised you the most about the Duke program? program? If I have to think about it, it would be like my perception was like okay, I want to get into product. But beyond that like I really loved about the program was the courses that I could take which

was like designing customer experience. It was like a do different uh domain for me to explore. I know I had interest around it. So that was something very new for me and like I could take any course that I want. If I want to do a photography course like I could take that like as a audit course related to it. So that was something which was very new for me like if I want to focus on like entrepreneurship that's something I could do and there's an INE certificate around it. So that was something like I could have a blend of everything along with with So we didn't have that right Banan we could you and I could not have taken a photography course right?

Yeah I don't think so. I don't even know if we have a photography course. I mean I'm sure it's there somewhere. Yeah, but I just don't know if it would count towards the credits that would count towards our degree. I'm pretty sure but I think recently I mean I I'm not don't hold me to it. But recently I think Karen was telling me that there are a couple of courses if you really want it and if you can make a case for it uh and if the ISS allows you and it it accounts to your degree there is a possibility that you might get it. So it depends right like like Purdue has its own airport. There are you can take airplane lessons that like you can go and literally fly a plane and pay for it as a course.

So these course exist but do we know them? Do we need them? I don't think anybody who's coming to MM is even exploring those courses. Yeah, that's a good point. Y so what was for you the most surprising thing about the Purdue MM? Are we just talking about Purdue MM in terms of courses? No, anything like just in terms of experience. Yeah. Yeah. I think uh the most surprising thing was uh how close the the cohort was. Uh and for me at least like my previous batch had like 50 people but we were like 84 people and I think the best thing about at least in that perspective was how close the cohort was and how helpful they were if you talk to them uh and uh how helpful the the what do you call it the program directors are. Mhm. I think that has been truly separate than what I've heard so far. So that's a interesting one because I've

definitely had conversations with folks that have mentioned that sometimes it can get kind of cutthroaty a little bit where you know folks are um pensive about sharing their resumes. It's very much like a dog eat dog type of a world that goes on. But I think to your point I think it just depends on the cohort itself, right? because no two cohorts are the same. So, but that's interesting that both of those flavors exist here. Um, what can you tell us about the Duke cohort FSA?

Is it like either either extreme or is it just somewhere in between? The cohort in general has been that it's competitive as well, but also like there's supportive people like in terms of like helping each other out in terms of like resumeumés or sharing resources like particularly me and my friends like we do that a lot. So that happens but beyond like the cohort like even if our senior batches and all everyone is very helpful and I think the Duke community in general like if even if you see of MEM like all the cohorts have have been really helpful in this journey. Yeah, I think the extreme version of that just to add to what you both said that I faced during my time there was um so in my case as it turned out I actually had so my MEM cohort was six people actually cuz I joined in spring of 2020 and then

these people just disappeared like I never saw them again after the first semester because of the co-op or just like v varying timelines and such. So what ended up happening in my case was that I was just adopted by business analytics and just some other courses finance here and there and basically what ended up happening during my full-time search was like the moment somebody received a call back from any company right that would signal that that company sponsors international students and so all of us were within the next two hours applying for that same job which for me I think that is the pinnacle of a good cohort. I don't know maybe you guys would disagree but yeah um and I definitely like that was my lived experience at Purdue and funnily it has nothing to do with the MEM program as either but I just figured

it might be you know helpful to share that. So maybe the takeaway here is just go make friends with good people and it doesn't matter whether you're at um Duke or Purdue. But speaking of things that do matter in terms of recruiting, what amount of help did you guys get uh from your respective colleges? So maybe Fizar can kick us off. Um how involved is the Duke like support system when it comes to helping with maybe resume prep, interview prep, applications, etc. What does that look like? Yeah. So we have a different department particularly around like career services and specifically also for like MM students which really helps with our resume reviews or like if you want to talk before your interview like have a mock interview and if you want to discuss more about particular things that you want to understand like

uh maybe negotiations about like how you can handle that or have like difficult conversations around like interviews. So that's something they really helped and um I have particularly uh reached out to them and also some of my friends did and they have been really helpful. So that's been u important element. Yeah, makes sense. Banan I think I'm kind of lost on the question but I'm going to pick up from what FSA was saying right. So I think uh all of this yes like what Fizza mentioned there is a obviously every college will obviously have that system wherein you can obviously go to their m them resume reviews these conversations and stuff and they'll give you like whatever their experience has been so far but I think other than that one thing I wanted to mention and to give a little bit of insight into is that I think uh every

senior who's not in the same shoes will always help you like surprisingly every person who's graduated would always help you if you know how to talk to them. So that's another thing that you need to figure out people who are not chasing the same things when then they'll obviously help you with things that you need in terms of reaching your own goal. So what I meant by also the cohort being really nice, it was that whenever someone was done chasing a thing that they probably wanted and then you go and talk to them and then you just genuinely just show interest saying that okay hey I mean I'm in the same boat and I would appreciate a favor or I would appreciate a conversation. I don't think anyone's shying enough from a coffee chat. I don't I don't think so. So I think other than the system that Purdue gave me, I

think there were people who I approached in a very genuine way and I think that is what helps and I think everybody does that like everybody knows that okay I've been in that shoes I probably just don't have the same shoes but I can still tell you which which shop to go to if that makes sense. Yeah. I think it's also interesting that the it almost sounded like this was kind of a nothing burger for both of you guys because um and and like I guess what I'm trying to get at is the reason I wanted to ask this was that um and this just makes me feel like a fossil now, but I didn't have this actually. Believe it or not, I there was no such thing as a um like helper department or you know the here go here for your resume review or go here for your interview prep. Um I didn't have that. And what's worse is and I actually just straight up feel

guilty now is that I didn't even have the foresight to go knock on these doors that you just talked about. So yeah, I guess sorry I didn't mean to um you know ask like such an obvious question and but obviously I'm really happy that these things are just not even stuff people worry about anymore. It's just solved right like if you need help it's there go get help wherever you are. So that's you know happy to be humbled there. Um I guess the from like moving forward from that I think the big one one word distillation of you know both Duke and Purdue is that almost this tension that exists between prestige and ROI right I feel like the more conversations I have with either side those are the words that I keep hearing again and again and I think it's one of those things that is especially pointy because so far everything we've

discussed has more or less kind of been common. I know for a fact this is no longer in like common territory. Uh Bhan, we lost your video, but hopefully that's only temporary. Are you there? Yeah, it's temporary. I'm just uh working on my window. Yeah, no, no worries. Yeah. So, yeah. So, continuing I guess. Um yeah. So, is first of all, is that true? Is that a trade-off that you are forced to make or do you just think about it differently?

I'm just curious for you guys' thoughts on this trade-off. I think Shiza can go first. Yeah. When it comes to like reputation or like you know prestige about your university, it's always you would feel okay people are aware of the university and they know okay you come you're like you consider you like you're smart. So that's like okay a perception they have in their mind like coming from a good university and in terms of ROI they know okay beyond coming from a good university and like considering you are smart they know okay you are having like you have that certain experiences and have built your profile accordingly in order to get that kind of role or an opportunity apart from like other students or other people who are in the same position as Do you think one is better than the other though? Like do

you think if you had to pick one which would you pick? I guess for like for a Duke for if you had to go back right and let's pretend you were getting like your MEM degree today right and you had to pick one because again from my understanding in terms of ROI it's just a name that comes up a lot which is of Purdue cuz like the tuition is really low. Um, and then you know it's just like you're most likely pretty easily able to pay off your student loans or whatever. But I guess the trade-off there is that it's not as big of a brand or at least an established brand as Duke. So I'm just trying to parse how you would approach that today if you had to make that decision. If I have to go back and still decide probably I'll still pick your university uh because beyond like the prestige and all uh is more than that the community that you get and

uh the network or the people that you could reach out to the alumni that's been like the major difference and given the location where Duke University is like close to the RTP um so that has been a major change or like major point uh for choosing new I'm going to add on top I think it's about the location it's not about in that scenario I don't think I think the way we're breaking it down we're like okay cost versus pride I don't think that should be the case I think it's there are so many added factors that come into the place that I understood when I came here which is the location in that perspective it impacts a lot and that's just one of example that I'm giving like the person I asked uh like I was mentioning earlier who went to who has chosen CMU by the way it's because he's done that for four

years CMU gives you that opportunity CMU uh the location where it is at and companies look for people from those locations and that is actually a real thing here let that be internship let that be full-time location matters a lot like I was in I was interning at RTP at a company at RTP and I saw that neighbor neighborhood coming up and I'm like okay there are so many jobs coming up here in biotech because I was working biotech sorry what's RTP I'm actually not familiar with that abbreviation it's called research triangle park it's in it's in Durham uh so it's like North Carolina is becoming like the hub for pharmaceuticals if not it being already got it I didn't know that sorry please continue continue so uh all the biotech startups are in North Carolina right now and mostly towards Darham side so if you see a good

startup there then you're you know that they have presence in Europe, in Japan and wherever and stuff like that. Uh but I think along with the cost and pride if I have to go back I would still do it logically. I would purely do it logically saying okay what am I prioritizing and what am I ready to give up it's that simple like I because I didn't even look at look at it from a money perspective because when you're looking at it from that angle in that lifespan or like two years ago you're like dude masters like mem like Duke Bart Bart I don't think you're looking at money at that perspective and I think that is a good thing but only things you need to add onto that is every single thing that we're talking about that not money is going to decide where you will be for the next two years because one step you

take it will change your life. So if I was at Duke I would have had a different life and I would have had to be okay with it and I put myself through those multiple scenarios and I went like okay am I okay to do this? Am I okay? Am I okay with myself doing that and that just how I did process elimination and I think I'm here and I would always choose Purdue again if that answer I guess. Yeah it does. So tell me, but I'm curious to unpack more what you said around around you, you almost dismissed ROI as a factor, which was very interesting. So, so tell me more about that. Like obviously I understand that we're grounded in the real world. You can never dismiss ROI and I know that's not what you were trying to do, but just tell me more about why it's not as strong of a factor as one would have expected it to be.

So I'll keep it simple, right? for ROI you can go to a non branded college in US as well if you're getting a visa for it like then what's the point because ROI would can be also not money specific it can be connection specific like I have made such good connections at Purdue and I know for a fact when I call them they're going to pick up the call in the next five minutes or call me back and it's just an example here but it's also about those the so this is my average statement you're the average of five people around you so if If you're going to Duke, you need to figure out that that's the end product that you're going to be. Let that be in supply chain, let that be in product management. Let that be wherever. If you're in Purdue, it's the same thing, right? So, I don't think it's about ROI in terms of money. It can come in for

sure, but not at when you're deciding, okay, what life do I want? Because the minute anyone goes through that struggle of going through a loan, because all international students mostly try to get a loan, they would always be like, "Oh, like let's just finish it off in like 40 grand, man. Like, why I have why do I have to pay 80 grand? Like there's just no logic there. Why am I paying twice?" And then you're literally dismissing a life eventually. And that's a very big statement right there because if you're the average of five people around you and you're actually coming from a very good product management experience and Duke is literally the next step for you for product and you're just saying okay no but like why would I go to Duke when it's twice. So if you're making that judgment just be sure you're making it with good

assumptions and good projections that you're trying to make is what I'm going to put it at. I'm not talking about less ROI. I'm saying Peru gave me a lot of ROI. I can't measure it in terms of money just I just cannot. So that's my point. Yeah, I mean I hear what you're saying and I think it's an interesting outlook especially keeping in mind that there's obviously product managers that come out of Purdue MM also, right? So it's not even like unfortunately right it's not even that clearcut where if this then that if if that if that then you know this. So yeah. yeah. Yeah. I guess it's just interesting that um it kind of just what gets you there I guess ultimately is the you know million-dollar question um puned.

Um speaking of career fairs, what do those look like? What were your experiences like? I can go first for this one like you know save save yourself. Um what a colossal waste of time. just um only thing I learned was how to talk to people that would literally be anywhere else on earth but where they were talking to me. So that was me. Um but feel free to go for it whichever whoever wants to attack this first. Please can take this up. I'll go next.

Yeah. Um I did attend career fair in my first semester like any other student who is excited to be part of it but yeah for me it didn't go that well like uh I had some other stuff but people were like very dressed up and this but I know like different scenarios happening for my friends probably for me it did not work out like the career fairs were not that helpful probably like for networking getting connections that was helpful but I know someone who did uh reach out to the right person uh at company and did network with them on that personal level and did end up getting internship and few even got converted to full-time like after their internship. internship. So I think it's there are some few of them like few cases for them it was helpful but not for general audience.

Yeah that kind of tracks with what my understanding was. Um, push it's debatable, dude. Like it is like I just don't know how to go about it. Like it's it's very debatable because uh for me it was like not for me but for my cohort. Let's keep it that way. It's a hit and a miss. It's as simple as that. Like either you are at the right place at the right time or you're not finished. That's the end of the conversation for a for a career fair because the first time I went to the career fair nothing worked out. I didn't know who to talk to. I didn't know what to present. I didn't know how to present. I wasn't even presentable looking in the career fair. I was just there because I'm like, yeah, I mean, I just have to submit a resume and I'm done. So, but sadly, it doesn't work that way. It actually works the way Fizza was

explaining that first either you are at the right place at the right time or secondly, you're making that conscious effort of reaching out to people beforehand beforehand and being a step ahead in the game. And the minute you do that, you can obviously understand who's standing at the booth, who do you talk to, and all of this is just being prepared and running the game that you're already in. Mhm. Mhm. So couple of my friends did the same thing. Went to the people, went to the thing. Went to the people, they met their first day, second day again, met the same person, and then in that they figured out that there is a position right there. And then they got the internship, they sealed it off. This was two weeks into my entire cohort. two weeks because in two weeks we had a career fair, right? right? The third week he had the offer.

So everybody was like, "Okay, wait, what happened? We just got here." And so that's the point, right? Like if you know how to talk, if you know how to present yourself, I think you're good. But that can go sideways and is why you need to be prepared uh by talking to a lot of people. is why when I said that my cohort was very talkative. Mhm. Mhm. It can get a little political. Uh I'm going to use political here but uh it does help if you know what you're talking to whom you're talking to.

Makes sense. And I mean also humans are inherently political. You know that that just I don't even yeah necessarily think that's uh you know like a unique thing. Um but what is unique for sure is the co-op experience thingy. Right. So let me set the stage here and most people that are watching this will probably already be aware. But Purdue allows you to do up to a year in CPT. So that's your it's like you can work full-time for 11 months. You can get paid full-time just, you know, you're just chilling. You're not even actually doing any courses if you design it like that. The question that comes up at least to me a lot is what sort of like a random loophole is this, right?

because clearly there is no such thing in the US law that allows Purdue to be an exception. So why doesn't Duke do it or why doesn't Dartmouth do it? Like why is the co-op thingy specific to Purdue? And I it's okay if you don't know the answer to that. I'm just like kind of shooting in the dark here. But yeah, what can you share about the whole co-op thing? BJ, I don't know the answer to that and I think I have sold this to people that way that I don't know it is legal. Mhm. Mhm. Uh they found out a loophole. You're doing it. Yeah. Yeah.

So it is a loophole. Uh but I don't have an answer to as to why that is but I know for a fact that after purdue started gaining traction in the whole 12 months co-op thing which was very recent by the way I think last two three years. I don't think anybody knew about PDM in 2021 when Raman was in the college. college. Well you're I was there in 2020 so even even further further. Yeah, but like yeah, so recently because people have made use of the co-op is where the co-op stands out. I was just getting to another point that after this started getting traction, a lot of colleges other than Purdue started asking their management that hey we want a co-op system let that be even for four months, eight months or whatever because I remember that when I was choosing for it in 2024, Dartmouth only was giving summer intern opportunities.

That's it. And that also you have to find out and I mean it's the same everywhere but but I think after that even Duke even Dartmouth actually forced their curriculum to be like okay no we want a co-op opportunity in our college because it gives us opportunity to stand out uh and it also brings an experience on our resume which not a lot of people who are freshers right out of college and getting into Duke and Dartmouth are like getting in the US. uh so that is a thing that happened but uh on that front I am actually a very different case because I did my spring internship I went back for summer and fall and I'm doing again a [clears throat] spring internship internship so you can divide the course at Purdue anyh how you want in total you can do it for 12 months you can divide it by semesters also you go for spring come

back for summer go for fall again doesn't matter uh but the last semester of Purdue you need to be in college I don't think that's the same case with Duke. Uh you can still be working and graduate and keep working and that is so much easier because you can then just ask hey dude I'm right here I've already created a dependency give me a full time. Correct. Correct. Yeah. That becomes very easy. Yeah. I I had a similar experience. Yeah. So even I for my co-op I was spring summer co-op then back to campus for fall and then I came back in spring to finish out my co-op before then going back for the summer to graduate cuz even summer counts as the like a semester that you're on campus. campus. Fizza I know you were also doing an internship for a really long time while you were still at Duke.

So is it just like the same thing but just not marketed enough? Is that is that what's going on here? Yeah. So yeah like I uh Banan was mentioning even Duke has started like co-op since last year like like who graduated last year they did have like co-op it was very new and very few people but from my batch uh we could do one year intern like internship from summer. So for us like if you complete but the only catch is like you have to complete your courses in like the two semester if you want to like have one year long. So you have to complete like first two semesters and then you can like summer fall and spring you can work as a co-op.

But another thing also about is like you can do a part-time internship. So if you saw on my like profile uh I did a summer internship and then I wanted to graduate in three semesters. I wanted to come back to university and have that like my final semester before graduating. So I did a part-time internship. So I worked on like half for like 20 hours on CPT and I was also studying and Duke. So I did right which I know you can do that at Purdue as well. So apparently they they've just all all morphed into the same thing at this point, which is crazy cuz this definitely used to be for sure like the biggest, you know, like bullet under the pros of of Purdue cuz this was just you couldn't find this anywhere else, right? This was the only place where this was happening. And so this is news to me where that this is no longer um

special to Purdue, but so that's interesting. I guess probably for the no additional advantage is that they can graduate and while still working and just transition to full-time. That's like the cream on top at this point. True. Which which makes me wonder why they don't let you do that at Purdue cuz again like the law is the law, right? right? So, so, so yeah, maybe we'll have to have this is a great idea for a future episode. But anyway, not to go off on that tangent. Um yeah, concluding segment here. I know we all love our colleges, right? And I realized through this conversation, as much as I've been trying to coers you all into being critical of your respective universities, I realize now the fault in my ways. So now I'm going to just directly, you know, come out and ask you to do that. But the the way I'm going to

do that obviously is um yeah if you had to change one thing right about your experience it can be courses it can be the cold in Indiana not to put words into your mouths but anything yeah if you if you had to change one thing that you wish was better and this could have been your fault right maybe you just didn't know any better that's totally acceptable what would that one thing be and maybe we can just yeah I feel bad that Fizza has been going first the whole So maybe you should go first this time. Bush. Sure. Uh I think uh it's a very personal thing. I think if I was I would have just talked to more people, it would have been a different life. I mean that's the biggest biggest because yeah like I was going on that same tangent that you were sharing earlier.

Uh it's very difficult for me personally to talk to people. It's just it just very feels very unnatural until unless I feel like a natural linking or something. I don't know if that makes sense but uh it's very difficult for me to talk to people other than getting straight to the point and not a lot of people here in the US do that. So it's very very difficult to talk to people. So my only thing is that if I would have talked to more people I think I would have come to my dreams and goals earlier. I just didn't want to go through that path wherein I don't know if I can trust the person. I don't know if I can because you're when you're in your first semester it's very difficult because you're still making up your life. you're still trying to see the whole new change and stuff like that. So that's a personal reason there. But

yeah, my life would have been way different if I would have just talked to more people just purely just conversation. Nothing else just just yeah I don't know if this helps but I used to feel like this also but the thing that made me feel slightly better about this predicament was the fact that the there is such a thing as going too far on the other side. What I mean by that is if you talk to too many people, all of their advice just cancels out to zero zero and then you're left you've like you've solved solved taking not being able to take any action from first principles is is all you've achieved to do. So I I agree with what you're saying. It is a gripe that I have with my journey as well. But at least this is just something I tell myself for consolation and try to stick by um at least you know now when if anything I should definitely

be talking to lesser people. But um Fizza what was it like for you? What was the thing for you? to if I talk about the program, I wish like I could do an internship in my second semester like uh it's at Purdue uh because I had like some opportunities but I couldn't accept it for that reason like I was like I can't work because you're not allowed in your second semester. Is that right? Yeah. So I have to wait till my summer and that's when So I think that's one thing I wish I could do because yeah I had to decline the opportunity that I had.

Interesting. Okay. Wow. I didn't realize that. Sorry. Um. Huh. Yeah. It's weird, right? Like again, I really need to note this somewhere and get to the bottom of why these things are like this cuz this just drives me crazy. Like this just doesn't make any sense to me. Like who comes up with these rules? like how can two different colleges have different rules about the same thing for the same F1 class which all of us you know start out with. So yeah that's crazy. Um final final question here before I let you guys go. What is the one thing that most applicants don't care about enough when they're trying to decide their college but they totally should. So I can lead with in my case I definitely just way over optimized for ROI like I used to sleep breathe dream everything was about ROI for me and obviously as we've

realized that's really stupid and I should not have done that and I should have focused at other stuff more so what was what is the thing for anybody watching that's like trying to decide you want to be like hey think about this thing it's not something usually people think about but consider thinking about X. So what would that X be for you guys? I guess I can take it. Um one thing that I I'm talking to a lot of people and saying and advising would be that um decide what you want to do.

Don't come here and experiment and uh if you have no experience that is even more challenging to get into like you have no experience and you want to focus on certain field. So probably build that experience, know what you really want to do and then come here for sure because it's going it's going to be like two years but it's going to fly. So make sure you know what you want to do. do. So would you say Yeah. So would you say that you one should almost be dissuaded from starting if they do not have experience? Is that like the take that you have? No, not like completely but I would suggest them having a bit idea and not coming here and then figuring out okay you have like three four interest and you're not yet sure. sure. Got it. That makes sense. That makes total sense because and the reason I asked was because I've seen multiple

people say that just like publicly creators and such that if you don't have experience don't come. Um which anyway I have thoughts on that but probably a topic for a different conversation but yeah Ban Bhan what about you sir uh I was actually going to go on that topic a little bit so I'll give you a live example in my batch I I have a friend uh he knew clearcut like that's the only difference here he knew clearcut that he wanted to do product management he didn't have the experience for it sure he's like cool so But he built his resume starting before even he landed in the US. He started making projects. He started doing courses. He started doing experiments on what is product management. In if you get an interview and in US the goal is to get an interview. The minute you get an interview, it's on you how you drive it.

And all you need is experience. You don't really they don't really care if you don't have any experience, right? And you're fresh out of college. You just double down on that. It's all about if you have project experience. Sure. I know people who got into Tesla who worked as a F1 formula student. It's a competition that happens in India across the globe. If you can even explain that Tesla people go crazy for that experience. They're like, "Dude, he's run the groundwork. Why don't I just hire him?" Mhm. Mhm. And those were people who were right out of college, by the way. They didn't do anything else other than doing an F1 thing. So that's like a completely uh illogical statement there. But my answer to this one would be uh take like so let's assume that you have an admit take like 10 steps back just forget that you ever applied

and I would just say think about what you want to do in the next 5 years. The minute that's clear I think you're good because like I said I wanted to get into industrial engineering. I had analytics school. I had a little bit of supply chain cool, but I still wanted to experience it. I I still wanted to flavors of different different things like what's quality, what's manufacturing, what's NPI, all of those things, right? And I did that at Verdue and I'm like, dude, like I I know everything at this point and from a perspective of getting a job.

I know everything at this point. It's just now I want to understand what do I want to do, right? right? And it becomes very easy. But again, I I had a plan FA mentioned, right? like you need to at least know where you want to be in the next 5 years so that you don't hold yourself accountable to anything wrong that's going on. for example, you didn't get an interview or you got the interview but you tanked it and then you're like oh it's not working my way but then that's not the point of the whole interview process right so I think far-fetched vision I think that's exactly why it's actually a good thing that I mentioned five years in Duke MM and even in Purdue there's a question it says tell us your fiveyear goal goal it's just so that you can get into Duke or Purdue by the way it's actually real so so yeah we didn't have that so

no No, I mean, oh, so when I was applying, I think they had it. They're like, okay, tell us your 5 year, 10 year group. And I'm like, why would I even know that? Like, I'm a kid who wants to do a master's degree. And when I actually thought about it, I was like, okay, dude, that actually makes sense. And that's the whole point like when you're writing that SOP also, you really need to think about all of these things because they're hiring you technically in a way. Yeah. Yeah. To do exactly what you've written to do.

So, you just can't uh it becomes very funny if you don't follow that because then you're going downhill mentally. Sorry, I didn't want to go there, but yeah. yeah. No, it's a good point. I guess it it's very interesting because Yeah, I in theory it all makes sense, right? I But I just worry that there's there just must be a huge chunk of people out there that just don't know, you know? And like I just keep thinking about this. Maybe it's a silent minority or I should say silent majority.

Whatever it is, right? Maybe the reason I'm saying this is I used to be one of these people. I probably still am one of these people for all I know. So yeah, maybe that's why I almost sense like an internal, internal, you know, like tension about h man, why does it have to be like this? But anyway, like like like I said, that's probably a conversation for another time. Um, I love that you left us with that take Bushan and I love how strongly you believe in that, right? Because ultimately that's been your lived experience. That's what's worked for you and in your worldview that is where things are at. And that's the whole point of conversations like these, right? Like we're not here prescribing to be like do what we did. This is the only right path. That is literally the antithesis of this entire podcast which

yeah um really grateful for you know amazing partners like you all that come on here and share your experiences and you know just I myself having been somebody that's that literally went to Purdue MM have still taken away so much. I I've learned so many new things and I'm sure anybody listening would have done so as well. For anybody that wants to reach out, what would be the best place to connect with either of you?

Should they be interested in getting in touch? Personally, would LinkedIn be the preferred place to go? Cuz I'll be linking both of your links in the show notes for anybody that wants to say hi. But yeah, that was all I had, guys. Thank you so so much for taking the time. This has been so awesome. and maybe I can have you all back in a few years to do the next 5 years after graduation from either university. So, thank you so so much. Thanks for having me. And be all my proviness.