How to Get a Job by Just Showing Up (Moving to SF With Nothing) - w/ Deep

What would you do if somebody just told you to move to a new city without a job and without any plan? You'd say they're crazy, right? Well, my guests today did exactly that. Pack is bad, bought a one-way ticket to San Francisco and showed up with the belief that proximity beats applications. I booked a one-way ticket to SF, bagged my bags, no way to stay, no resources in SF, but still I was like, okay, let's do it. And what happened next is one of the most unconventional job hunt stories I have ever heard.

We're talking about cold walks into offices, sleeping on couches, saying yes to everything. Quickly when don't knock it, that I'm here to pitch without a resume, without knowing what the company does. Subscribe on YouTube and Spotify or anywhere else you get your podcasts for new episodes every week. Hi, everyone. So nice to meet you. What I'm itching to know right out of the bat is, was there ever a point where you were like, you know, I'm cooked, this is not going to work out, I've already messed up? Let's just call it a day, let's just head back.

Yeah, so the day was, I distinctly remember, so I had saved up a little money from my on-campus job back in Wooster where I did my masters from. And that money was about to run out and this would have been probably the first time when I asked my parents someone. I would have had to ask my parents for money. So that is when I thought that, hey, if it now is the time to pull the trigger, I did trial out of different things, but I was like, okay, now I'm going to do something being in person rather than, you know, just trying to reach out people or to hold a flag.

Fascinating. So, you know, let's take a step back and kind of paid the picture here for our listeners in terms of how you ended up in this position in the first place. So talk is through what was going on around the time, where at some point in your head, you had the idea that, hey, let's just drop everything, literally move to San Francisco without a plan and will go from there, right? So I'm sure when you thought of this, you weren't already there. So take us through what it was like when you first made this such an extreme decision.

Yeah. So, okay. Things weren't falling in place during my master's itself. By that, I mean, I definitely got a summer internship, did a couple of internships elsewhere. Many of them were definitely unpaved as well, but then I was like, okay, I need to have a source of income. So my on-campus job was my source of income. I used to make sandwiches there. So I did that, saved a bunch of money there so that, you know, because the job was as it was bad in person, that was already up to game to a lotion before, I mean, I had that in mind that, okay, I cannot expect to get a job as soon as I graduate.

So it was probably my first mistake while thinking, but this was back when I was in India, like when I was taking my flight to the US. So from that day, it was there that, hey, I need to save up some money, did that, and then what happened was money started to, I mean, for a year, I was without a job. So on my own, I was trying to, okay, for myself, but my money was about to get over. So at that time, I was like, hey, I need to do something here, which is why I was like, okay, let's go to SF. And as you asked the question, right, what was the thought process behind actually going to SF.

And that was more like that, hey, a cold applying is not working for me. I'll be very honest, it's been a long time since I've tailored my resume as well, because things weren't just clicking. I mean, I don't know, might be a contrarian, take care of what people say, take it till you make it. I did try that, I'll be very honest. By showcasing myself in a grinder way than possible, nothing was false or as such, but it was like, hey, yes, I've done all sorts of these things, you know, just to try and fit into the job description, but it never worked for me.

I did get a couple of interviews, but they either were from reach outs or me, cold applying, there were very few, which I got, you know, I actually applying to a job and you're in Baghdad, to the more dry that sort of process, which you go in case, you know, you're interviewing from big companies. So I was like, okay, I was one thing for sure, startups were definitely in my mind. You can go towards that part of that part, things later.

But yeah, applied, had applied to a cold, cold email, a bunch of founders and a couple of them kind of agreed that, okay, yeah, he can do a bite-boating session or something like that. So I was like, okay, I got one yes. And just for that one yes, I was like, okay, I need to go to myself. Let's figure this out. So that was the only thing which triggered mainly other than that, yes, I was obviously planning to go to a sack.

But this thing kind of triggered. So which is why we're doing like, we are there and, and it's a bad kind of snowball. And being in Assad itself was so powerful that as soon as I landed there, I knew a couple of friends from Berkeley, but again, I linked in my network team and I just texted that guy that here, I mean, SF just helped me navigate. So he was like, okay, sure, he made sure, you know, I had all my travelings and sort and you mind people might have that notion that you cannot go to SF, you need a car, exercise, but hey, I can tell you can be at anywhere, any place just by the common transport.

So literally costly to one throw cost in me 20 bucks, but if I have a couple of meetings or even one meeting, and if I know that meeting has an agenda, I was pretty shy that before going to as if I don't want to go for the, you know, that here this is just a coffee time to be very happy. I need a job. I have six months more in the US and I have my students to play. So this was what the trigger was. I got a call went to SF and yeah, I got from blueberry itself, you know, where I'm actually working.

Okay, so that was the coffee chat you had scheduled. Yeah, originally. Yeah, that was the coffee chat scheduled and when I went there. Yeah, it was one of my UC Berkeley friends here, you know, set up with a couple of more people's couple of more founders. I, but but all of those things didn't work because because the startups were at different stage where and they were more product focused rather than growth or GTM focus. So tell me this, for somebody that does not have friends in Berkeley, if you did not have that, would you have approached this differently?

Would you have not gone? I guess what was your backup or what somebody like that supposed to do in a situation like this. Yeah, I mean, I'll be very honest. This move is, I wouldn't recommend this. I mean, expect to do this. I'll be very honest. The reason being for doing this, you need to have that risk appetite. Even though if it's, you know, just of a thousand dollars, but hey, manage with a friend first, wherever the friend is in California, near by, near by SF, like she up to list, the number of groups you know near by SF, I would say up till will Peter Samhose is quite travelable.

It's hard goes end to end. So I was fortunate. Yeah, that my friend stayed in San Jose. So if I hadn't known Jan from Berkeley, then probably I would have just gone to San Jose and got it. Didn't, would have gone to SF or had a different plan altogether if you want me to be in the, I don't mind. But I was like a, I don't know what I'm going to do. Even if I go to SF, I knew one thing that a lot of lots of events, especially it was your ride when I planned this. And massive, massive number here. And so I was like, okay, I'll just go to even stock to be put, try to get ruffles, do something. And then what I am.

Yeah, at home, right, just sitting behind a laptop, applying to what feels like nowhere. Yeah, I'm getting no return. Yeah, makes sense. So talk me through like your first month, maybe, or maybe even your first couple of weeks. You had that one coffee chat scheduled. The rest of the time, how were you making the most of your time? How were you staying productive, trying to stay locked in without a definite plan, or maybe around this plan, or around this time, maybe you started to come up with a plan or something to that effect.

How was that? How was, how were those first two weeks? Yeah, so when I went to SF, the best thing was, I hadn't, I don't remember the dates. This tanky, but I had the coffee chat schedule on Friday. I landed on Thursday, Thursday night. And by that time, I was fully prepared that, hey, what I want to discuss in the white boarding session, which was kind of the first round for blueberry with my CTO. So when there, and I had to make sure that, hey, I had to be prepared.

I mean, I didn't know what they were going to ask me as well. It was just a white boarding session, and this is the part which I like the most about startups, is that you have to do everything. I'm currently the fourth person on my team. You have a couple more joining in as well, who will be joining in the next week. But I am the fourth person, I'm the second her in the team. And they probably expect me to do everything, right?

And again, from top of that interview, white boarding sessions, I prepared my tech projects. I did a little bit of my resume. The work experience, but I didn't do any much of it. Why? Because I had a different task altogether. I wanted to be a part of their growth or engineering teams. And when it comes to growth, same as I am of pressure. I had a couple of, I had a couple of resumes, you know, how I can pivot or pitch in my growth strategies.

And for the engineering part, since I haven't worked much in India except for internships, I didn't have, you know, a story arc there. But I had a story arc in my projects and for my masters, you know, that whatever I did, whatever I done, during my masters, the internships, those work, those will definitely play upon me. So, the first day, I landed second day interview. I didn't know how to navigate ASAP. My friend in San Jose told me this part.

It will drop me or Apple Maps, Google Maps and I reached there before time. I gave my, Sean was kind enough to, you know, the CME. We went upstairs and, okay, this introduced me. He was the first time, he is the first time. He spent five years at Google Photos and now he's the founding engineer. So, wow, he introduced me and then he gave me a white, then he was like, do you want to come over for the white board? I said, I was like, okay, I didn't know how. I mean, I had no expectations. I just replied.

I just replied to him being like, just come over. We'll have a chat. I was like, okay, he gave me the white board. Both of them sat down and they were like, okay, now we have the white board for yourself. Here's some arkut pen. We want to grow blueberry to 10, 100 and 1000 customers tell me what we have to do. What do you have to offer and how you can take us? I was taken aback a little bit because, I mean, you can frame the question in any other way.

Like, okay, what growth side of things are you thinking of and how prepared were you for this question? Like, were you expecting this maybe or had you done any homework around this? The best part here is one thing which I've learned is if you have an open-ended question in front of you, the best part is you should never keep your answer open-ended. You should be as specific as possible. So, I had prepared a growth strategy, not multiple ones.

Just one strategy, but deeply enough that, hey, if you ask me anything at any point of time, you will never be stuck, you know, doing an process or something. You guys can know what are the immediate actionable next steps which you can implement. So, my whole point of pitching was that, hey, this is my strategy. I didn't present a backup plan or something, but this is my strategy. It has these, you know, four or five steps to it, and this is how we do each and every step and how we expand those.

So, there's one main growth strategy and I had five different subsections. Each of those five different subsections had layers to it. That's what to implement XYZ, we need to do this to implement SEO, we need to do all of these things. So, which is what I think they like, they like, and they didn't even ask me for, you know, okay, this is one strategy, but I'm not the next one. They were so engrossed and they followed LinkedIn and Twitter very, you know, inquisitively.

Yeah, I have, I mean, they've all, they've been Twitter users since, I've been users since. So, it was quite, and plus they are in this SF startup bubble. So, they know people who are doing similar things, achieving the results. I just broke it down into actionable steps that give one, two, three, four. If I get joined from tomorrow, these are the four things that I'll do. Unfortunately, I was able to do those four things in my first week itself.

And did your experience working together with me, trying to build this podcast help at all in this stage or not really? This was, okay, my first interview was, first five boarding session was with the CTO. And the second was with my CEO. So, CTO was a poor type drive, he definitely is on LinkedIn, pretty active. But obviously, he's slightly more keen towards the tech side of things. So, the second I had an interview also, the CTO kind of lightning. So, it was like, okay, let's, Nima will talk to you now.

I had a chat with Nima, and you wouldn't believe, I thought, you know, it's always better to give startup interviews in person because you can pick off of each other's energy. And it didn't complicate those energy, you know, if you have a question, and if I'm able to think in the similar line, and then answering the similar line as well. And writing those, you know, clear your cloudiness, or you know, you probably might have a brain for that, you know, how do you go about it? And so, I think our team has an answer to it. So, it clearly shifts off the energy tone, the dynamics. So, that happened really well in my first interview.

The second was with Nima, where he told me, again, the same question. But it was a little specific that, hey, let's say, I want to sign up. Let's say, I want to sign a specific brown. You know, we sell to D to see grants. So, only if we want life as a customer. What will you do then? So, I was like, okay, XYZ things, and that is when the podcast thing really helped. Because, as I told you, right, I don't have many things to pitch. I just completed my undergrad.

And then I was like, okay, let's navigate the world, which I don't know if it, if now, it's a thing to do or not. You might find a thousand more videos on that. So, don't want to talk about that. It's very relative, very subjective. But Nima told me the same thing. And that is when the podcast, because I was able to show this all this, right? Ten months, first year, from 200 to we have 1200 subscribers. We have gross text by that time we heard. I was talking about those times right now.

But I was talking about my specific kind of, like, kind of clearly bootstrapped it. So, I was like, this is what we taught. When we were talking, I did, I didn't do the machine gun strategy, which I overheard from Now, this is how you know you can plan. This is how we kind of contradict the opinions XYCE. Just, I mean, those, if we have very specific clear eggs, it definitely helps. So, I pitched all of that. And he had my YouTube channel up in front of him as a result. I was like, hey, I used to edit back then.

Now, I haven't got the time, but hey, I'm not rusty with those tools. I have used all of those things before. My screen just lag. My screen is kind of blank. You can just keep going. Riverside will fix. I should not see you the point. It's my laptop because I have so many tabs over there. But yeah, I'll keep going. Or maybe, maybe close stuff tabs if possible. Although it should be fine. It really shouldn't matter. So, you can actually just keep going. Actually, I had the screen refresh. Oh, what was the question?

We were talking about the podcast and growing it and using that to your advantage. So, in the interview, all of those strategies and apart. So, I told you the five segments, right? Podcast or YouTube was one of them. The other was mainly LinkedIn. The third was resource hub, which you have in the website, right? On the lowest of the page, it is scroll down. It's compared to start. So, it was that the fourth was in person events. How should blueberry do in person events? The fifth was okay. Just how to push more content.

The fifth was kind of a GTM thing that you can use tools like play and build systems, build funnels around all of these existing systems. So, these were my five strategies. I pitched that to Nima, who is the CEO who has spent four years in Snapchat doing project management and product management stuff. So, again, see, I'm your guy. So, at any point of time, it wasn't that, you know, they were, I mean, we were able to gel or the synergy, I guess, energy is the right word. But no, that's funny. The energyless clicking, what I was saying, right?

He climbed off, you know, had that in mind because he had seen such strategies work. And I was so fortunate enough that I was pitching the same things, but he kind of, you know, he had locally, what was the depth to it? And I kind of added the depth factor in that. Hey, this is how the action number steps look like. Because imagine you seeing something successful that, okay, this is nice. But the next thing we are is I give you a roadmap that this is how you do it in very easy steps.

Then we'll be like, yeah, yeah, kind of simplifies now, which was my pitch, to be honest, that, hey, I have worked that startups. I haven't turned that startups. I will turn that corporates and I will turn that research institutes throughout my masters. And apart from that, I have this YouTube channel factor. And the third part, I think, which we already have on this channel is the Y.T. Is the Y.C. gaming simulator, which got me into the vice. So I had those credentials backing me up.

People usually have their work experience, like five years of work experience, three years of work experience and no work experience. So these three things were my pitch, which I just said, like three points were my pitch to him in the cold email to him, the in person as well. So I went well, the interview went well. And then he called me in person, continuing your first question. After the second thing, which finished with Nima, then I was like, okay, this is also interesting, right? Why do you work to be proactive while approaching startups? Is that second call happened?

Then Nima was like, okay, let's, let me think this through with the team and then I'll get My flight was, let's say, on the third week, during the last days, Nima was in LA because that is why we had a virtual conversation. So I got everything in SF. I just, he just, you know, kind of told it in the call itself that I'm returning on. I don't remember the date, but let's say. So what I did was I just texted him that, hey, my flight is on Saturday or Monday. He didn't know that.

I knew that he's coming on Thursday, so I have two more days. So I was like, let's just proactive email that let's meet in person for a coffee or something. I just emailed him that and he was like, yeah, definitely come over. You know, if you are just your, I know you met Sean, we should definitely do the same person. So again, in person, we again, complimented each other's energy and, and discuss the same things because now again, if somebody is calling your coffee chat after a couple of times speaking to you, which means, okay, they kind of know what you are trying to pitch and the update is on to chat, right?

So I, yeah, went in there, discussed all of the same things. He discussed his few plans, which on the ice as well. He did all of that. And then it was just a 15-minute conversation. For 15-minute conversation, I had to travel one and a half or one with me. It posted me 20 hours. So which is why I'm saying, I'm not always showing up the good side. There are two completely balanced sides. And yeah, if you don't have, you won't even really, and I don't recommend this doing.

But I don't mind saying out this loud even if you want to keep it from the podcast or no you credit card with 0% APR. So obviously, we're maintaining the good credit history, some good points there. From day one, let us cover a card. No skipping bill payments. So saved up enough money. And then I was like, okay, I got a credit card, zero APR. I made sure I had enough money to pay substantial amount that I don't gather interest on that and took a credit card and I just went, I was like, hey, I, I, I'm, I had no other option. I had to do thrown back to India with 50 years old, right? And which is like crazy. From a middle jazz family. And I think my dad is working. He's about to retire in the next five years.

He definitely had planned this enough, which is why I could come here. It was back to being able to pay my loan on. So, but still I was like, hey, I'm not going back to India and something from square one. If I come to us at any point, my family or mission feel that, you know, we have taken a step. I send this guy to us. I think that was the whole time. Tell me more about why it was not okay to go back to India because this is a discussion that happens a lot. I've seen and I understand, right?

A lot of people when they say that, hey, it's just a bad market. There's nothing I could have done differently. It didn't work out. Obviously, it's not ideal, but a lot of people do feel that it's okay. You seem to have a really strong feeling against that. So I'm trying to understand a little bit more about, I know you mentioned family. I know it mentioned. It felt like a step back. But tell me a little bit more, why was it an absolute no-go for you?

I mean, if you tell me where I was after I pay my student, I have a very old soul in India. This is actually good opportunity, why not? I mean, my answer will be different. I wouldn't find going as well. The specific point I am in life, the biggest driving force was me was that if I go back to India, right, in order to pay my student debt, there might be assets involved in some way or the other for my families in order to pay back 50 lakhs. I mean, there's some kind of trade in order, right? You cannot pay for your lakhs.

The bank, if you have found me to the past family, I assume. All the time, my friends, right? So I was like, okay, that just that one thing shouldn't happen. I would have gone to India to be very honest. But if I had, you know, 15, 20 LPA job, I would have been like, okay, all of my money, which I get, even if I have to, you know, just pay it to the bank and pay back my loan. And that would have been fine as well. At this point, I had reached that level of evidence, a frustration. But after stage frustration turns into acceptance, right?

I had crossed that line to be very honest because six months being unemployed, not even six months, you wouldn't believe in February itself. I flew off from Worcester to Arizona because I had an online course. I didn't have to go. So I left to my part time from February, 2020, five February tailbone, right? Left my part time when I got my job. My ordinance, our date was for the second. So exact one, or I was completely unemployed without, without my one, without any source of income, just on top of my savings, I was like, okay, let's figure this out.

I mean, this gives you a sense, you know, like how much probably prepared I was that. Even if I have to spend one year in US unemployment, I was ready to go all in for that this month that I don't have to ask my parents or something like that, you know, for money or whatever. They never said that we cannot. I mean, no parent ever says that. I am curious though. And I'm sure there's a few people in our audience that have the same question.

And help break down what a GTM engineer is for those that are uninitiated. Just give, give me like an overview level of what is it that you do? Because I think it is one of those jobs that have really cropped up in the last couple I don't think they existed before that. So yeah, helped, helped demystify GTM engineers. So GTM engineering is the, right. I don't even know why we call it a GTM or I have a very different take on GTM engineering. I think let's hear it.

Different take being is this is just from my perspective that if you are in a startup, especially where I am, you are just four people, right? I don't know to you know, I think I'll do a little bit of everything because I should know what the product does. I should know how to pitch it to someone and then elevate that if somebody asks me. I should know how to do the tech sides of it, how to automate stuff or how to fix anything.

And then I have to do sales and LinkedIn and content as well. So if you call all of this GTM engineering, I guess them, my title makes sense, but right now, especially at startups, the titles and the work you do. I think they don't make sense. So is it a lot of marketing then? It sounded like a lot of marketing from what you mentioned, yeah, to put it in one line. For me, GTM engineering is how to get your company's name in front of anyone through any medium, if that makes sense, content as you've come, how does namal know what blueberry does or not what blueberry does, that is also bigger as in today's attention economy.

But flip namal, blueberry, what is the company, nothing matters, let's namal know blueberry or has namal while scrolling through your LinkedIn feed or Twitter feed has namal, blueberry is somewhere, that is what GTM engineering is. Now that is the outcome right now, and I'm working backwards if that makes sense. So the matter is, what is lower is that, that, hey, break this open ended statement into specific, implementable steps so that we can reach there, obviously, multiple roots.

But yeah, let's, you know, I will try to think and add a little at all the times to just see which works and which doesn't work. Because it's very important to know, right, not always the thing which works, but also the thing which doesn't work, so we don't end up basically, I feel it's equally important So this is to me GTM engineering, if you want the textbook definition, I have that as well. No, I don't think we don't care about that on this channel as you know, what I'm more curious about, what I would, what I would like to know is, if you had to list maybe the top three or five hard skills that are needed to become a GTM engineer or to get hired at an up-and-coming startup like yourself, what would those, you know, three or five skills So again, I'll go back to my five sections which I've pitched in my interview.

I think those are the five skills which kind of make up for GTM engineer or to say somebody who's a slightly broader term growth engineer, which means you do a mix of content and GTM all of those as well. So it's simple, the top five hard skills first would be, I wouldn't want to mention tools here or something specific, because tools you can find it anywhere. But yeah, they're transferable. So almost like a Swiss knife, right, like you need to be able to do it all.

Or code skills, agents, open doors there, you should be impressed with all of those things. You should be on top of that game because understand the point is you are not to be a good GTM engineer standalone, but you should speak their language as well. So yeah, the person you work with because, okay, I'm your speaking data science language. I'm not speaking GTM language, but I know people there are speaking GTM language. So I don't look like an outsider essentially, right?

So then my, the first step of feeling which I went was going slightly out of time, but the first thing, the first feeling which came to my nose, you know, if you go to a new gym, how big, how you loan, like a headless, yeah, yeah, yeah. You feel out of place almost like you don't belong there. I mean, whenever I walk, I see the buildings, I, it still doesn't go. I still feel like that, you know, little headless, you can try to figure it out.

But I think these five skills would, and I was feeling it by then, but these five articles would definitely make sure you're entering that growth. If somebody said they do growth at the start up, you'll know why these five articles, you know what they're actually doing. The first thing we do the best with all the latest happening, yeah, not only that, but if I tell you to spin up something right now in your laptop, the configuration part for setting up the infrastructure part, I mean, definitely at this stage of time, it is very It is, it is very easy. It is like a cakewalk to follow to be that. Well, I want to like just to quickly pause you.

I agree with what you're saying, but I speak with enough people that are not in this little bubble we live in to know that there is a big part of my audience right now that is scoffing They are like, what are these people talking about, but sorry, keep going, keep going. That was honestly like everything that I wanted to cover. Thank you so much, Dean, for taking the time. I'm sure we will have you back here in no time, but really excited for you.

Really happy to, you know, for you that you were finally able to break through the ceiling and are doing such meaningful work. It's so fun to engage with your posts on LinkedIn. And I see now where that all comes from. So, so yeah, you know, keep in touch, man. And this has been so great. Thank you so much for taking the time.