H1B seat is just 85,000 and we are having what like four lakh applications every year. The moment you know the first H1 was no, I decided H1 may not be the path for me. So he did not wait. My guest today Hush Maheshwari engineered a way to speedun from intern to director in just about 2 years. I was aiming for a principal role and started behaving that right on day one.

started behaving that right on day one. So it was purely one strategic decision after other. Hush realized pretty early on in his career that if he did the work no one else wanted to do or no one else could do, he would get promoted and and this is a big and he would also qualify for the 01 genius visa. This is a story line I wanted to do as well. Started working towards it right there and then there you know I did not wait for my second or third lottery. O1 isn't magic you know it's evidence. It has nothing to do with being famous. Stop relying on luck. Start building your evidence. Here is the proven way that you can do the same. Roll it.

that you can do the same. Roll it. Welcome to the only podcast in the world featuring stories of high agency individuals who are just a few steps ahead of us. Harish, welcome. Hey Naman, how are you today? Doing very well. And ever since we calendared this, I've honestly been really excited to pick your brain around a couple different topics. I want to start off with the oven visa. Full disclosure, disclosure, in the past 6 months or so, there have been a couple times where I found myself going on to Gemini, that's my AI of choice of late at least. Um, and then asking it, hey, knowing what you know about me, do you think I could qualify for the overland? Obviously, as you can, you know, probably assume, nothing it says is helpful. It just feels like such a it just feels so inaccessible, right?

a it just feels so inaccessible, right? Just because of how how deep it is and such. So really wanting to ask you and we will be obviously covering your background and such as well in parallel but when was it that you first realized that this is something that you could look into and what was that like for you? you? So u bit of a background right I landed in the US in fall of 21. uh had a speedrun through my masters to completed you know my four semester course in three semesters uh got multiple offers and and what did you study and where sorry oh sorry yeah um I got a masters in computer science from San Diego State University it's one of the most underlooked in the university in terms

underlooked in the university in terms of quality of professors that's what I want to highlight um nice nice a lot of you know what I was able to achieve I would love to credit to the professors there but yeah u after I gradued ated in December 22. I got multiple offers. Decided to join this interesting new team at Optim called Unified Enterprise Search and joined around Jan timeline. They put in my application for H1 in March. I did not get selected in Jan. Last year, do you mean or Jan 2022? Jan 2023. Three. Okay, gotcha. Yep. January 23. Uh March 23 was my first lottery. uh I did not get through and uh knowing what I knew that you know yep there's a lot of

knew that you know yep there's a lot of competition you know the H1B seat is just 85,000 and we're having what like four lakh applications every year um yeah decided to reach out to my manager who also had a you know similar career you know from F1 and instead of even going to H1 he did an O1 and then you know he's now a citizen so that Wow awesome kind of yeah like as a mentor plus anchor for me as to you know oh this is a story line I want to do as well and started working towards it right there then there you know I did not wait for my second or third lottery uh the moment you know the first H1 was no I decided you know um H1 may not be

no I decided you know um H1 may not be the path for me and turns out it wasn't you know I did not get into the third lottery I applied for one and was approved after that yeah huh huh so I guess for for those of our viewers who And I I mean I am one of them, right? I don't mean to put myself aside from this. I'll tell you what I know about it, right? And then you can probably color in the gaps uh which there will be a lot of. So I know that there are I think three criteria. I think one of them has to do with publications in some way. I think another one is to show that you um are

another one is to show that you um are getting paid like a big salary. I don't know. I feel like that's the extent of my knowledge on this. So for those Yeah, exactly. Go ahead. Yeah, Yeah, I I'll go back to your statement about, you know, Gemini being your choice of AI, uh, no matter what AI you go to, a lot of what it says is based on, you know, public forums that already exist out there. And correct, if you see the general trend, whether it's LinkedIn, Reddit, uh, people want you to believe that if you have five public, you know, five publications or 10 publications, you're automatically eligible for O1. and that gets funneled into these LLMs and that's what they say to you as well. Uh that's I think honestly the biggest misconception

honestly the biggest misconception that's floating around today. So yes, you know, uh USCIS does say that there are u eight criterias you need to fulfill three of them and again you know none of this is legal advice. It's just my experience. Uh totally. Yep. Those three uh you know criterias could be anything but it has to be centered around the story and that all boils down to what your domain of expertise is. Um and if you're able to build a narrative around that with three or four criterias I think that's when you qualify for an open visa. In my case uh it was simple you know um you know apart from my experience in US I did have some experience back in India working with JP Morgan Chase again in a similar domain of search. So problem was same you know you need to

problem was same you know you need to search on a particular domain there it was fintech in US it was healthcare there it was more of you know traditional software engineer search which uses elastic search bunch of bunch of other things here it was more AI and NLP based so I sat with multiple lawyers trying to figure out what that domain could be you know it did you know the first lawyer was not the one I stuck with at the end so I took multiple consultations and finally decided that yes the area of domain I need to focus on is a IML a IML in healthcare and more specific on search that is something that I had crystallized by the May of 23

that I had crystallized by the May of 23 which is you know 1 month after I got my first H1B reject that you know you're not selected in the pool once that began I started you know again I was in the unified enterprise search team so things lined up nicely uh I started taking up on more and more projects which were search focused that hadn't been solved for one thing with healthcare is you know these these are very slowmoving systems and specifically in US it's a big problem where to search a doctor I think you need to do three or four different operations today um even if you are on you know your own provider's app you select a specialty whe whether it's you know primary care uh or vision or dental and within that you then type your

and within that you then type your doctor's name which is not intuitive right I think um we or I would rather say my team decided to revamp that with a Google like search. You know, you just put in your name or condition or you know just what you're feeling and you would get doctors recommended in your location or you know basically whatever location you want. So this believe it or not this sort of approach doesn't exist in US and we were able to pull a patent out of it.

able to pull a patent out of it. Ah wow. So this was as a part of your company right your name was on my company company correct yeah got my name was on the company it's issued to optin uh even till date it's used by multiple subsidiaries of optton which you know increases the citation count as you know so that was the first thing uh the second thing was uh again you know building on the same narrative right we were confident that this technology would disrupt a lot of our competitors work that they were already doing. So instead of releasing it right away, uh we were strategic to first showcase it on our investor conference which got in a huge amount. This was again in October 23 that uh again helped build my profile like I said. Uh Mhm. Mhm. similarly you know around that central narrative that you

around that central narrative that you were talking about the central narrative right. Uh so this was you know this kind of you know helped me fulfill the author you know author criteria with the some media publication with the investor conference and uh you know by the end of the first year I was at least qualifying two of the eight criterias. Now bear in mind I would have been automatically qualified for a critical role in high salary but I did not want to use those two specifically because you know it's it's a very subjective criteria you don't have hard proof for it um so like they don't have any pay brackets they just say that it should be high paying that's it that's it yeah and you know okay that's so weird what it it it is weird US says you know you

it it it is weird US says you know you should be in the top 10 percentile pay area in range but is it the for example you know someone working for a highpaying startup in SF lives in Kansas what does that mean exactly I was just going to say that yeah yeah depends on geography way too much yeah even my lawyers you know they constantly repeated this thing right you know Owen isn't magic you know it's evidence it's it has nothing to do with being famous it's all about proof that you know your work is rare and it impacts a lot of people it's all about evidence and again high salary is one criteria they and I again even I feel it's not easy to justify if that's you know one of the three strong criterias you're trying to push

push um this is you know end of 2023 um so yeah by that time I already had two criterias again you know the same so what did you end up taking instead of what you said the salary so instead of that did you pick something else or uh right so uh That's when you know I decided to leverage my current you know situation that you know oh I'm the one who's developed this amazing technology that got published in investor conference I need a promotion and that pushed into the critical role criteria um not just critical role right along with being a hands-on engineer I also mentored people so I asked for direct reports as well um so that is those are the three criterias I targeted primarily

the three criterias I targeted primarily um over the span of next two years a lot of a lot more came in as because of you know my public presence going on to AI and healthcare conferences being part of panels stuff like that. So yeah it was all just you know systematic decision one after the other if you want to say that and yeah uh honestly when did you end up getting your visa?

when did you end up getting your visa? Uh so towards the end I got a bit lazy with filing again you know it's an it's an intensive process even when you're ready right you need your lawyers to write up the entire petition and you need to review that I think the review took the longest time for me to 3 months from I want to say April of 2025 all the way till uh July 2025 to get that petition reviewed by me and you know again there are multiple back and forth with the lawyers you know recommendation letters that you need to get to prove that whatever you're saying is true. Uh and that's probably another piece where a lot of people think that oh if you get a letter

people think that oh if you get a letter from anyone it would work. You need to have three letters from your work either current or previous and two or three letters from independent industry exp you know independent industry experts who shouldn't be completely you know strangers to you. You can't just go online find you know an random person who's an expert in this and request a letter. that doesn't work and it often fires back as an RF or a rejection. So again, I see since I had public presence with conferences and stuff like that, I was able to get to different people, get those letters and that was another 2 months. So my filing was roughly at the end of September 2025 and I got approved for my 01 in the first week of November.

for my 01 in the first week of November. Wow. So I have a couple questions. So, one of the first things you said was um when you were first talking to your lawyers or I think you mentioned that the company you were talking with, you ended up not going with them. Tell me or talk me through what that first talking phase looks like with the lawyers like are you do you have something in mind already and then did you you go back and forth in an interview type of way like how does that interfacing work essentially? essentially? Yeah. So I think picking the right set of lawyers is extremely important because just like a lot of you know digital influencers a lot of these law firms want you to believe that you're

firms want you to believe that you're eligible for 01 and I wanted someone who told me that oh you're not ready do xyz things to be ready. So the very first lawyer that I had interactions with is he was like oh you know you have two criterias we could use high salary and just get you approved in the next three months. And I was like, "No, no, I don't want to risk it just for the sake of applying. I have time.

for the sake of applying. I have time. What can I do to build my profile further?" And they were like, "No, that's not what we do." So, I decided not going up with them. There's also a route, you know, with your company lawyers, right? But more often than not, I find them not helpful unless you know you have some very good law firms with your company. Um, for me, that was not the case. Um but again I think think you mean just in terms of their competence you're you're referring to just general purpose competence where company lawyers are usually not that good. good. I I I don't want to say competence it's just you know that one-on-one interaction that they're not able to give. They're very competent very good at what they do but they need to handle

at what they do but they need to handle a pool of thousand people at least. So I see what you mean. Yeah. the attention becomes diluted and right right you know it's again for me it was the not it was not the right fit because I wanted direct attention for um something that would help me stay here longer. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So choosing the right lawyer and then correct yeah and and then you were saying that when you talked to later lawyers they were like your profile is good but it's not good enough still you still need to do these things still and then that's kind of what gave you assurance that okay these are probably who the people that I want to be working with is is that kind of uh and I had bunch of strange conversations you know uh there's one

conversations you know uh there's one law firm that was based uh locally that said oh you know one is only for entrepreneurs you it's not for industry professionals. If you have a startup or something like that, only then you know you can apply for one. And I was like, um, okay, maybe you're not the right law firm for me. Uh, but yeah, the one that that's crazy. I like I said there's a lot of gray area right on the USCS website because I don't know you know any sort of law is a precise practice and the ones who are able to identify the right meaning of it and get you the right um recommendation is honestly the right lawyer in my opinion.

right lawyer in my opinion. Yeah. And I mean, I don't know the first thing about this site, but it seems to me that something that would really move the needle for me when when I'm talking to a lawyer is if they have experience with similar profiles like me and if they can show that we did it for such and such person, they don't have to tell me their name. But I feel like that is something that would give me a lot of reassurance that okay, these people know what they're doing. They've done this before and it's not like a, you know, lottery all over again where they're like throwing darts in the dark and seeing what sticks. So I I'm assuming that's not something that you would want in an ideal world.

in an ideal world. Absolutely not. And I think um you know what you said absolutely makes sense. You know the lawyer has to be precise. And And if you see just you know in the last six years, right? Uh people used to say that you know the O1 visa approval rate is what 98% or something like that 6 years ago but it dropped to 90% right now and even back then that 98% of that rough number came in from cases which lawyers said yes to and then you applied rather than just going on and gut feeling. But now just because of the trend and scare around H1 you know oh I'm running out of time let me rush into this people are applying a lot more hastily is what I feel feel and we were seeing more rejections than

and we were seeing more rejections than um what we saw 6 years ago. Huh? So help me understand this right and and I understand that if this is not something that you can you know you you have the most insight on but here's the thing in in all of so I've had a similar experience as you except my masters was not speedrun I did two years um at Purdue I've lived in the US for almost five six years now I know personally if I include you three people that have over visas which just feels to me like that that ratio, you know, really does not add up.

ratio, you know, really does not add up. So, what do you think the reason is that people don't usually go for this? Like is it just that the lawyer fees and such is very expensive? Do people not have conviction or are they really right in not applying because they're just not anyway going to get it? So, what is your ratio right like in terms of your circles? I guess if you can share I don't know um maybe it's just my experience right but there's a misconception around cost for 01 uh because if you compare it with H1 uh the lawyers that file for me you know it cost them less than filing for H1 because there's no LCA or you know uh that do cost that is associated I'm

uh that do cost that is associated I'm not sure about the exact numbers though but I know it ended up costing them less even with premium processing so I don't think cost is a factor it's just uh the level of effort that you need to put into uh when I say effort it is purely building a public profile and then kind of being good at reading you know not the chat GPT style but thorough old school reading um you need to I don't know you know flush your brains out after work and just see what the lawyer sent you and if even the slightest thing doesn't make sense you know know maybe you know error in your title or a skill set could trigger an RF. I don't know. So that's another Yeah,

Yeah, that's another important thing is yeah AI is good. Don't use that for any legal stuff. Yeah. No, I mean that's obviously yeah helpful call out. One thing I want to say though is I think this is true for most people but at least for me like my organization applied for my H1B I didn't really have to do anything right. So in that way there is a cost right cuz for your O1 it would probably be money out of your pocket. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh some lawyers you know do but you're still saying that that's probably not the reason why people don't apply according to you is I think is what you were saying there are a lot of law firms out there

there are a lot of law firms out there right now that do first consultation free and even after that I think open consultation is reason a lot more reasonable than you know what people think lawyers cost out there. uh I don't want to give out exact numbers for sure but you know research on their own it's it's um of course if it's not you know um I I don't think cost should ever be a factor and when you just talk about cost to company I think it's no it should be indifferent to them whether they're applying for O1 or H1 as long as it's both in the same you know either nonremium processing or premium processing criteria. So um but yeah um let's contrast this right you you work at you know Kushman Wakefield they applied for the H1B what was your

applied for the H1B what was your experience on that um yeah I mean it was probably not even 10% of of what you mentioned terms of you know what you said around after work you need to flush your brain out and you know sit lock in as the kids say um so for me it was really just as simple as like I just gave them all of my information. They filled everything out, sent it to me for review. review. Um there were a couple like little catches here and there that I was like, "Hey, that that feels that that might not be accurate, blah blah." And then then they like just fixed it. Um the more notable thing for me was that I got my stamp um this past year in October and I was originally planning to get it

and I was originally planning to get it in December or January and right now I have friends that went to get their stamp and that are just still stuck in India right cuz you know because of what happened uh in this past December and so I really one of the you know to pull it back to 01 I just feel like the aspect where you're in complete control of your future so to speak um is is probably for me the biggest reason of all of them when when it comes to looking at stuff like EB1A I think is something similar but I hear that that's a much more bigger way more advanced version of basically but I have heard that oven helps in terms of getting EB1A is that is that right I think it it does right it definitely

I think it it does right it definitely sets your base but from there it's a 100x climb u I wanted to The the reason I asked you about your experience is because I wanted to give you one contrasting example, right? So I know you know a lot of people are stuck in India because of the December mass cancellation of visa slots and u that's a headache you face after getting your visa with H1 on 01. I think in most cases whatever you know uh preparation effort you need to put in at least till date is before you get your approval and after that I think it's again again relatively easier path than H1 that being said uh for you um or most of

that being said uh for you um or most of the people on H1 right it would have been that oh you know H1 is a standard process a lot of companies know that and they would request documents you submit In In my case and a lot of other people's cases, we first need to explain our company lawyers what O1 is because they're just used to dealing with H1B cases over the time. There may be some lawyers in their firm who know what it is, but the ones that regularly deal with immigration within the company are not aware. Um it also impacts you know when people are I know one of my friend who is on 01 trying to get a job switch and every single interview he he has to explain what 01 is why he you know uh okay

okay u he is on O1 essentially and not H1B and people think that's a bad thing when I say people it's just recruiters because they have absolutely no clue how engaging engaging so there are challenges on both parts uh but with whatever happened in December I think you know I'm I got lucky with the one. Yeah. And actually something you said also has opened the door now to um I don't even think I know the like what sort of doors open up with an oven. I know it's better, but to help contrast in what ways like in terms of immigration pathway or stay or job switching and such, I guess what unlocks do you get out of an oven that you would not with an H1B?

not with an H1B? Um, in in terms of your career, right, I don't think it matters because once you get a job, nobody really cares about what visa you're on unless you decide to switch. Totally. Uh, totally. Yep. When it comes to switching, I want to say H1B is a slightly easier path because there's a well- definfined process for an H1B transfer. There is no process for an O1 transfer till date in US. And let's say if you want to switch to a new company, you would file a new O1 petition and you know again pray to God it gets approved. So uh interesting I think everything else is pretty.

I think everything else is pretty. So is also linked to your organization then? um Amazon is also linked to your organization and uh again you know with all the external consults that I had at the end I had to rely on the mercy of my company lawyers to file it which also meant you know that uh yep I needed to have a good enough lawyer who could convince lawyers and other firm to file it on my behalf.

other firm to file it on my behalf. So that uh is again I think you know one factor which not a lot of people tell you that uh yeah 01 is great it's not it's not yeah yeah I don't think Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So sorry just like H1 it's tied to your employer I think the only benefit is you know when you change your role internally and if it's a completely different thing right you don't need to do your LC again. again. I see. So, in this event, God forbid, if you have if you're impacted with the layoff, layoff, do you you don't have a 60-day clock, though. Is that right? Everything is same. There's a 60-day clock on O1 as well.

clock on O1 as well. Okay. Interesting. So, so pardon me, but what is the unlock here? The six year um like what do you call it? The re reverification or whatever. Yeah. The the biggest unlock is I guess why should one get an 01? Okay. uh with again you know since you mentioned layoffs right with layoffs going around uh I've seen a lot of companies not filing for perm and if you're an H1 without a perm you max out at 6 plus 1 7 years if I'm not wrong yes that's what I meant yes yeah with you get an infinite extension by default so you get a 3ear1 visa and then you can extend it infinitely even without perm so that's one major benefit the largest benefit at least in my opin opinion is you know it sets your base

opinion is you know it sets your base for EB1A. You put two three more years in in building your profile getting to the top of your field and that kind of you know with the right set of people around you make you you know eligible for EB. This is so interesting and is this why some people that I know like they make their own companies and then use that to apply for oven because that way then they can never be laid off. Is that something that happens?

something that happens? Honestly, I have no idea about if that's the reason, but I know yeah, you know, um what again you know the eight criter listed on USCIS they also put a asterisk at the last saying that you know or comparable evidence. So that is something which people miss. So being an entrepreneur is a good comparable evidence for ownership. you know you're not owning any IP but you own a company and if you attract funding let's say from YC or A16Z or superset for example you've proved your value enough that you can one sustain a company generate jobs which is big in you know USCIS's eyes and and that again no legal advice but that should help with for sure yeah yeah no and like about the legal advice stuff there there will be a disclaimer at the very beginning cuz you

disclaimer at the very beginning cuz you know I also want to absolve myself of any I don't know why there would be a lawsuit but so yeah rest assured that you know there is no misappropriation of anything that we see here it's just two people that you know are trying to figure this thing out which is just by definition as you keep saying it's very hard to figure out just because there is such a nebulous definition across the board um I think talking about all of this for me would not make as much sense unless you also contrast it with honestly like your LinkedIn is it's just kind of such a spectacle to see how you've risen so quickly like it actually boggled me when I first like looked at it like it's it seemed like in almost 2

it like it's it seemed like in almost 2 years or so you've moved from your first job in the US which was an intern I believe at Autodesk straight to I think you're now a principal um or like at a director level. So can you talk us through kind of your career trajectory and then once you've done that you can share the like secret behind your you know apparently one promotion every two months or something like that.

months or something like that. It's definitely not two let's say it was a bit longer than that but uh you know a lot of what I was able to achieve in US I can credit back to my first job in India. Uh I used to work for JP Morgan Chase in Mumbai and I tell this to a lot of people you know your first job is very important. Your first boss is very important. Your first mentor is very important. Yeah, I know, you know, getting into Google or Microsoft or Fang is extremely cool, but none of it would matter if you don't have, you know, a supporting mentor or boss. So, uh, JP Morgan is, you know, one of the most

Morgan is, you know, one of the most specy banks I know of. And I started off working on lot of green field projects, right? you know when I started whether it's creating you know a common platform for seven different portals that existed to reduce uh customer resolution time it's it was it's called navigator and it still exists in the uh in the company uh uh but one thing that I knew was you know implementation is one thing but what do I do to stand out and in the first one and a half year it was just learning new things and making sure what we do makes sense not just as engineers but also to customers. So um and [clears throat] real quick your

and [clears throat] real quick your background was in computer science right for your undergrad is that right? Yes, it was in computer science and um and you and your what was your job title at JP Martin when you started? Just software engineer. Software engineer. Yes. Yeah. U got it. Yeah. I joined right off the campus, you know, into the technology analyst program as SDE. Um that was fun. But uh going back a bit, I had a lot of you know my uncle and a lot of his friends were engineers. So I saw them started coding with them I think when I was 12 or something. this was in C and all of

or something. this was in C and all of those languages. Yeah, that that's where you know the base set in for me that I want to be a computer engineer. Coming back to JP Morgan, I think uh the first year my commute from home to office was 2 hours. The very first thing I got was a Leno tab used to look at YouTube videos around system design 4 hours a day for one and a half year.

hours a day for one and a half year. Wow. And at you know at end of that 18 month mark I was able to write code much better than a lot of my peers again this is something just because you know you have a you know appetite to learn grow and apply uh but that probably is not it right I think writing code beautiful and elegant solutions is one thing but then soft skills is probably equally important it's maybe even more than you know uh 50% important the way you present it in a way you know understand your target audience present it in a way that they understand it's not always technical jarens it's how do you convert technical terms into executive terms

technical terms into executive terms executive terms into technical constraints and then uh shape your conversations so there were times where just to prepare for a meeting I used to wake up an hour early see who the audience is decide my script beforehand and over the time it came naturally so it's a lot of things that many overlook, overlook, but it's not wrong to, you know, write a script for what you're going to present initially until it comes naturally to you. So, um, yeah, it it it really is sounding like your first job was just, you know, it just sounds perfect for a for a, you know, a person that's just entering the corporate field. I um I want to say this because so I like you I had a very

because so I like you I had a very similar experience where my commute was also one and a half hours each way to my work. I was a technology consultant at PWC PWC except in my case when I look back now I I was just really pretty much coasting most of the time and I know this is a reflection of me more than any anything else or anyone at PWC cuz they were great. Um, do you think there is do do you think this would all have panned out differently if you were also at a company that wasn't making you work as hard as maybe JP Morgan was? And maybe at the time what seemed like a struggle was actually the biggest boon you ever got. got. I think so. You know, uh, it's easy for

I think so. You know, uh, it's easy for new engineers to get into these companies, get good salaries and then, you know, just lose a sense of what comes next. Um so of course you know I did put in hard work but the direction was set in by the work I was assigned by my mentors and managers as well as just the overall culture in JP Morgan Chase.

the overall culture in JP Morgan Chase. Um I'm not saying it doesn't exist in other companies it does u but I would credit it more to you know the individuals around you rather than the company. So the team I was in played a big role in my development until you know I just even after you know my own approval I called them and thank them that you know wherever I am and because of you know whatever direction you gave me initially. So that's funny. Yeah that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And and when did you decide you wanted to go for a masters then? Like did you always know or did did that just seem natural then? I actually no. So that that's a funny story. So uh we we we we were working on

story. So uh we we we we were working on cool products right searchs and stuff like that and uh we were able to successfully successfully create a search solution that combined client accounts client contacts transactions anything you want into one single platform. So if somebody calls let's say chase helpline and they need help with their account it took seven different systems initially but right now it's just one system uh which is something our team built. Uh but then there was this funny demo from one of our Chicago teams which used a IML and NLP to do even better search you know not just keyword but proper semantic search and I was like this is something that I think I need to get into and I decided to one look at you know a lot of

decided to one look at you know a lot of online Corsera courses if I can get into A IML tried a few failed miserably because I realized this is not something you can do on your own. Um and a lot of my friends from DJ Sang we were already in US you know doing masters and you know getting into specialized tracks so that's when I decided to get in you know decided to get my masters essentially so four years at JP Morgan got it good workx um enough savings to you know fund my education initially and yep that's when I decided you know I'll get you know get a master's in CS specializing in AI and ML Yeah. Yeah. Nice. And then your first internship was was that pretty straightforward then like with all of your work and such

like with all of your work and such were you able to get it pretty easily or was it still a little bit tricky? I think it was a bit tricky. Uh partially because you know my unpreparedness I would call it. Um coming to your US you know there's a bit of a cultural shock. You don't realize what to expect stuff like that. And then the moment first semester ends you're supposed to start applying for internships which you have no idea about. there's a completely different process in India versus over here. here. Um whether it's prep you know uh whether it's lead code grind for just you know formulating your answers for behavioral questions. I started off it a bit late in I want to say end of Feb. So I was

in I want to say end of Feb. So I was very much at the you know deadline to apply for CPD when I got my offer from Autodesk. So that's purely on me nothing else. else. Yeah. And I um honestly do not remember seeking out for help either which is one mistake I made you know uh if you're not sure about something or if you're entering new territory right talk to people who are familiar with that and get some guidance and honestly if you know podcasts like yours existed at that time who knows maybe it would have been a different story for me.

a different story for me. Yeah, and obviously that's part of you know part of my motivation for of of doing these and we were thinking about the episode we did with or I did with Pragya earlier and Pragya and I were actually colleagues at PWC. So it was you know like a full circle moment. Yeah. She was one year junior to me so she joined a year after I did and then yeah anyway so we continued to stay in touch and she's now crushing it over at Amazon. Um what about your first full-time offer though? Uh was you did you still join as a a senior engineer or was it just engineer because I know this is one thing that a lot of international students worry about that say I had two

students worry about that say I had two years of workex now I'm you know starting out should I pick analyst or senior analyst so like level one or two so do you have any advice around that um honestly the times were different when I was applying right now the market is so tough that my advice would be you know go for what you get um over over at least titles and even when I was applying right I was not applying for titles rather you know the job relevancy and what I want to do so when I applied so uh when my internship ended right I already had an offer from Autodesk to join as a senior SD which I don't think they usually do they do an SD and then in the next year or so if

SD and then in the next year or so if you're eligible they promote you to a senior SD u so that is what gave me the confidence to you I think I have four credit sorry four courses left. Let me get it in a semester and join auto desk early. In that time I applied to multiple companies. I think I had offers from Meta Optin. Um oh I don't remember the last company's name but yeah I I had four offers in hand. I was almost certain I was going to join Meta but then they started pulling out offers from their interns which kind of uh made me a bit scared and again you know my interview at OPT was one of the most craziest interview ever and I knew this team is up to something big and you know yeah once meta was out of the line I

yeah once meta was out of the line I decided to go into optimum I've never once heard somebody say that their interview experience was one of the craziest ever. Are you able to share about what made it so crazy? So, one of my last courses at San Diego State was curial computational science. No one really takes that, you know, course because it's so difficult. You need to Yeah. I remember it from my bachelor days. I would not recommend at all.

would not recommend at all. Yeah. Yeah. Uh and I think one one of the most easiest proof I want to say is mathematical induction. Um so my interview started off with technical questions, problem solving. The last question which I think was the decider was can you write a function to reverse a string? And I'm like wait we've done graph we've done trees. Why are you asking this question right now? I approached it with you know the typical lead code mindset. You write a simple solution first. You optimize for space stuff like that. But it's reverse of string. What can you do? So right uh the interviewer who then became my boss was pretty happy with the solution and he's like oh can you prove it that it works now and like I can write test cases he's like no no no

like no no no I'm so lost so hold on so what was your solution like like so I'll put myself on the spot I would probably calculate the length go to the last pick write that first n minus one go like that is that valid I don't know It it it is the only extra thing I did was check for length because I know you know the solution I was writing was in Python and they have a length limit on how long your string can be. So I did a check first wrote a simple you know two pointer solution to reverse and that was it. Uh the next question that came in was very strange can you prove it that it works and like we can run it against multiple test cases. I even have considered large input and

even have considered large input and he's like no no no no can you actually write a proof that it works and you know all of a sudden it connected I could use mathematical induction to prove this. So I started off with if I use one as a base case one is always it's a reverse it'll work assume it works for n proved that it works for n plus one and he was blown he's like the only other person to come up with this solution was our uh was one of my one of his colleagues in into it and you know he was happy and he hired me as a lead right then and there. Wow. That's

lead right then and there. Wow. That's why I said, you know, San Diego State is such an underrated university. The professors are extremely good and they, believe it or not, actually want you to succeed and teach with their whole heart. heart. That is so cool. That is actually like I've never heard of somebody just getting hired on the spot. I just feel like that's just stuff that happens in movies and such. So, that is so cool.

movies and such. So, that is so cool. Wow. So this was uh your offer at Optum and then I think you did touch on that earlier where you just did really good work and then you made sure that it was visible for your uh managers and then kept uh requesting for promotions. Was that the playbook more or less?

that the playbook more or less? Um another thing that you know I usually recommend people is you know you behave that you are in the role that you're aiming for. So I was aiming for a principal role and started behaving that right on day one. Um again it doesn't mean stretching beyond your work hours or even you know um working on weekends absolutely not. It's just making sure your impact is beyond your radius. You know one delivering solutions is one thing being the smartest person in this room is also one thing but then if you're able to make everyone around you efficient efficient and smarter at the same time you know that creates an impact like no other. Um so whether it was mentoring junior SDS or senior engineers in the team I took it all up and another piece was also you know

and another piece was also you know picking up hard problems. So one example that really really shaped my career and again you know was one of the criterias that uh you know helped me fulfill one of the criterias of 01 was uh at the end of 23 uh there is this group that reached out to us that you know you do search we're trying to build a solution where we want to solve you know the attrition problem in healthcare which means if you as a patient uh you know go to a doctor there are high chances you may not like the way they treat you and you would try to find a new doctor and whether it's data you know migration

whether it's data you know migration cost or just the cost to find a new doctor it tends to cost healthare companies a lot um um believe it or not this figure adds up to 11.3 billion every year just to you know retain patient or you know the money they lose by patients moving from one doctor to another so they the team had done pretty good research about how they want to do a reverse thing you you as a patient, Dr. X is perfect for you based on XYZ parameters. So, they've done pretty good research. They just did not have enough technical, you know, knowledge to build it on their own. And there are a bunch of, you know, people in my team, but I said yes to

people in my team, but I said yes to that problem. You know, we can take it on. on. The reason a lot of people said no was because they needed it in 4 months. Uh, which in healthcare it's slightly difficult. difficult. So, I took on that problem. That's when you know I got a chance to manage a large budget, hire my own or hire an a net new team from scratch for this project, deliver it in four months and that was you know that was the highlight of that I think was the highlight of my tenure at OPTIM. It It helped me understand.

helped me understand. Uhhuh. So first of all that is no first of all that is so so impressive to me. What were the stakes like? So if this had failed right you've take on this scary project it doesn't work out would that I'm assuming would have like cost you heavily right it it would have because this was the first time I was managing a budget directly uh and it would have meant that you know no promotions or no again you know losing trust with leadership is the biggest stake and then no promotions for the next couple years which uh would have you wouldn't have mattered as much but would have made my own slightly difficult I want to say. So so why did you do it like why did you take such a risk then? uh one you know

take such a risk then? uh one you know when they were explaining the problem right I knew a very clean and easy way to implement this because it tied back to my experience at JP Morgan where they had something similar and again you know I'm talking in a lot of search related term I'm sorry for that but uh just by tweaking their um I want to say model into more of a graph-like structure I could do that very fast very efficiently and the implementation time would have dropped rather than just you know what they were recommending. So with that in mind I knew that this could be done in 4 months which involved you know hiring a new team which is which usually takes a

team which is which usually takes a month you know in large organizations um and then actually implementing it in the remaining 3 months. So we did that of course you know there were challenges where we almost were deciding to cut scope for one feature entirely but ended up delivering that too. So yeah, I you know nice nice wrote a blog about it too, you know, how we did it, why we did it also. And And that's awesome. Yeah, send that to me and I'll be sure to link it in the show notes cuz I would love to read that and I'm sure a few of our listeners would also appreciate from reading that. Um, I think in summary, I'm slightly, you know, feeling a little bit sad because what you're telling me, Hersh, is the

what you're telling me, Hersh, is the cheat code for an O1 and fast promotions and all of these good things is really just expertise. It's just hard work. It's a strong belief in oneself. And I nothing you said screams shortcut to me, but maybe that is the ultimate takeaway here. I think you would agree. Um I I've heard this quote so much time since I've learned in US. There is no free lunch.

learned in US. There is no free lunch. There is no shortcut. Uh honestly the only shortcut I would say is your belief in yourself and hard work. Um again you know definitely I want to say there was some luck factor early up in my career where I got the right team right mentors but then um ever since I landed in US it was purely one strategic decision after other choosing you know short-term comfort over sorry short-term discomfort over you know long-term comfort and making sure that that you you know you choose what makes sense for you not for others which is I think another thing I want to highlight is you know a lot of people ask why did you leave you know a director level role for something like a senior architect at

something like a senior architect at superset if even you were in my shoot this job was a no-brainer you know I get to build at the heart of AI every single day what I was doing for one company I get to do it for so many different companies and to give a background you know superset is a startup studio we do fund startups but at the same time we co-ound and build them as well uh so it's like YC but not just you know funding funding Um so yeah working with all of these different startups every single day and you know just the amount of learning in the last 6 7 months has been immense. So um again it was a strategic decision because AI is where I want to be right

because AI is where I want to be right now and building at the heart of it is probably the right move for my career. That's so cool. And I love how you know a lot of people when they say stuff like that you're like internally you go yeah but what do you know about this right but in your case you know having learned about your backstory. Yeah like just stuff you've done right like not taking up the meta offer. I feel like that's probably pretty high up the list because you know as you said you knew what you wanted and it's not like a status game right it's what's right for you ultimately is is what really matters and I agree that it's very easy to lose

I agree that it's very easy to lose sight of that right in the the world we live in right it's driven by so much of it is driven by status you know how I will be perceived by some chachi chaa back home in India but it's not worth going uh or optimizing for that what it is that you want to do. So truly it's been it's been so amazing learning from your journey and I'm you know so excited to have made a new friend in your in you today. If if any of our listeners have any questions around is it okay if they reach out to you or what what is a good way to contact you and what would you be like to be contacted for?

to be contacted for? I think uh LinkedIn is the easiest way. I'm pretty active in you probably know and if somebody's I love going through your posts. Yeah. Yeah. And if someone still, you know, thinks LinkedIn is not the right way, I I'd be happy to share my email as well. Sure. Yeah. And I'll I'll be linking them in the show notes for, you know, anyone to reach out. But truly, thank you so much for taking the time. This has been so fun, Har. Thank you so much.

has been so fun, Har. Thank you so much. The pleasure has been all mine, Nan. Thank you so much. And I hope you continue to do this for a long time for a lot of people. Thank you. It's it's guests like you that, you know, really make it all worth it. So again, thank you. That brings us to the end of that episode with Hersh Maheshwari. I had no idea just how accessible it was to get an 01. If you would like to share this episode with somebody that might benefit from it, please do so. If you would like to support me, the easiest way to do that is by subscribing on YouTube and leaving me up to a fivestar rating on Spotify or any of your favorite podcast apps. Catch you all next time. New episodes every week.