How to Ace Any Job Interview in 2025– Advanced Tips & AI Strategies - w/ Varun

The only question that one can be sure to expect in any interview ever is the tell me about yourself question. Like tell me about yourself, tell me about yourself. Tell us about yourself. The structure that I teach when it comes to content is the threeact structure. Act one, what was the spark? Act two is the growth and the final act is the fix. I'm Nan Pande.

final act is the fix. I'm Nan Pande. This is the ready set do podcast and in this episode featured not expert is Vun N Gandhi. Vun is the founder at Beyond Grad where he has coached over a thousand experienced professionals, land jobs at top companies in the world. In this episode, Vun shares with us some exclusive interview coaching advice that he normally shares during his 21-day interview mastery cohort. We go over frameworks for practically every type of interview question out there and even discuss the psychology of how to endear yourself to the interviewer, something that gets you really far. agnostic of industry role or career stage. The method that I teach my mentees get to that third level is something I call the BMS framework. Bones, muscle and skin framework. You've been mentoring people

framework. You've been mentoring people for so long now. What are some of the most common pitfalls that you see with most people? Viva Surya still has to net practice and Virat Kohli still has to net practice. What can I do to show up in as my best self and not let my nervousness work against me? I think you've written something about being like Neo like when you finally understand the game. Yes, you're all you see the matrix. In line with that theme of learning from somebody that's just two steps ahead of us instead of an expert. My goal with this episode is to give you all the tools, frameworks, and resources for you to absolutely crush your next interview. It is overwhelming, but you don't need to do everything on

but you don't need to do everything on day one. Subscribe on YouTube and any of your favorite podcast apps for weekly episodes featuring not experts and daily clips from those episodes on Instagram and YouTube. And now without any further ado, here's Vun. Welcome to the Ready Set Do podcast where we learn from journeys of not experts who are just two steps ahead of us. Warm, welcome. Nice to be here, man. Excited to record this episode with you.

Excited to record this episode with you. Yeah, I know that you are the go-to guy when it comes to interviews specifically. I know you do much more, but I know over the last few months and years really, you've been helping countless people to be their best versions during an interview. And I'm sure you get this a lot, but it can be really overwhelming to even be like, okay, where do I start? You know, I'm just some person. I just want a job. Can I just show up to an interview and ask for a job? Unfortunately, obviously, it's not as simple as that. And I think it was through one of your posts that I

it was through one of your posts that I realized that this is something so simple, right? It almost feels obvious, but the only question that one can be sure to expect in any interview ever is the tell me about yourself question, right? No matter what you're doing interviewing for, no matter who you are, somebody's probably going to ask you that at some point. So, with that in mind, I was hoping to kind of put myself on the spot, right? And have you critique uh my tell me about yourself, please don't hold back, right? Cuz this is supposed to be educational for all of our viewers and listeners. So, what do you think about that idea? I love that idea. Uh let's let's go whenever you're ready. I can just kind of put myself back to the position where I was 2 and a

back to the position where I was 2 and a half years ago when I was interviewing, right? because I just feel like that would be the most natural for me because as I was sharing earlier, I haven't had the chance to prepare for any of this. So yeah, I just think it's a path of least resistance. So yeah, um really only thing you need to know is that this is a transformation role. So it's for a transformation analyst. These people just really pretty much help u make automations if somebody is doing you know five six hours of copy paste type manual work. Um well now there's bots that can do that, right? So, we use low code, no code tools to just kind of help

code, no code tools to just kind of help people that don't come from tech backgrounds um kind of leverage technology to make their lives easier. Is that helpful enough? That is helpful enough. Uh yeah. So, whenever you're ready, go ahead. Give it to me. Sweating bullets here. And if if I if you see me with my head down, I'm just making some notes. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. All right. Enough beating around the bush.

right. Enough beating around the bush. I'm going to um jump into the deep end here. So, uh yeah, thanks for uh thanks for taking the time to talk to me today. I'm so happy to introduce myself and tell you a little bit about how I got to this point. Um I I'd like to start with my beginnings uh at when I got my degree in computer science for my bachelor's uh out of Bangalore in India. After my graduation, I was working with PWC like the big four corporation as a software engineer. I was helping them build a lot of PC's um just around new and upcoming technologies. technologies. Um from that point after about 2 years

Um from that point after about 2 years at PWC I realized that I really wanted to learn more about the big picture and uh morph my career into a more technofunctional role which is why I applied to and got into the engineering management program at Purdue University. During my time at Purdue, I got the chance to do a co-op for a whole year at material handling systems where I actually my my internship was exactly my role was called um a transformation analyst and I was helping them that company automate a lot of processes that they had uh to to get to a better place when it when it came to governance and also just really how operations were working which was at the time just a bunch of excels spread all over the place. there was no common uh repository

place. there was no common uh repository for documents and such. So I helped them make all of you know standardize all of their processes and then now uh I just graduated last month and I am now in the job market looking at obviously looking to work at Kushman and Wakefield which I believe my roles align perfectly with what I have done in my past and I would be able to according to me contribute really well to the job duties that were listed in the job description.

that were listed in the job description. Um and I'm happy to uh double click on any of the aspects that I mentioned based on whatever you would like to boot and yeah okay awesome the first thing I do with my mentees whenever I'm doing a mock session is before I even jump into okay what what were the good things what were the bad things so I want to know your perspective first what did you think and something that I do which is sometimes challenging for my mentees is I ask them to turn a subjective thing into an objective parameter. What do I mean by that is even though interviews are very subjective there are scoring mechanisms that these interviewers are using whether it's a grading system or a just notes or whatever the case is. So it helps in this way. I want you to rate

helps in this way. I want you to rate yourself on the content aspect of your answer and on the delivery aspect of your answer on a scale of five. What where do you think you you were? Yeah. Um I think content four on five given I just decided to cover that and I feel like I covered what I decided to cover. Now that if that decision was wrong that's a separate conversation but delivery probably three. I could have done better. Clearly wrong. Yeah. What do you think you could have done better?

do you think you could have done better? Uh, just have more flow, if that makes sense. Like just not have it feel like kind of I was shoehorning one event after the other. Some of them were a little bit more seamless than the others, like my transition from um wanting to be more technofunctional to getting my degree at engineering management. I thought that's just a really kind of airtight part of my story. But obviously there were other parts that weren't as uh seamless to to say the least if that makes sense. Yeah, I think when it comes to the grades that you have given the next thing I do is I tell where I am on that scale right even if it is tough to hear sometimes I think

if it is tough to hear sometimes I think it is necessary that this competition yeah that's the whole so I think you're bang on when it comes to your delivery grade I think the content grade I would say is 3.5. Okay. So we are close on that part. I feel that the strengths that you had in your answers were that from the content side specifically you name drop the places that you were working at because you had a you have a big name on your profile. I think that helps. Social proof is important. The other thing that you did well were you always had transitions between your acts. Interesting. So you went from okay this is the reason why I went from here to here. Now this is a reason why I want

to here. Now this is a reason why I want to go from here to the next part which is your company. Yeah that was a strength as well. I think you also focused on the transformations that you created although that was a little bit hit or miss and I'll talk more about I I felt that too actually. So I agree. Yeah. Great. What did you feel about that? Oh, I just feel like I should have added way more color. Uh, and it felt like kind of that I was just um not as deeply ingrained with claiming to do what I did versus what I had actually done. You know, like people that have actually done these things are have a way of just being way more detailed and as you said, name dropping more

as you said, name dropping more specifics around exactly what they had done. And I think I just kind of glossed over the surface a little bit too much than I should have. That's band one. Let's focus on content first. Okay. I think the structure that I teach when it comes to content is the three act structure. Act one, what was the spark, right? This is a question where you don't need to share everything about your resume. It is a question to show a little bit of your passion as well because everybody has passion. If your passions align with the passion of the interviewer then it gives you some relatability points. Absolutely. So I was missing that passion element. So that is act one. What was the reason you

that is act one. What was the reason you as a software developer or software engineer chose to do this? You could have done any number of things but why this specifically? So that is act one the spark. Act two is the growth. So in your case, you had experience at PWC, you had experience at another company. Tell me how you grew with that spark. And then the final act that at all.

And then the final act that at all. Yeah, that makes total sense. Yeah. Then the final act is the fit is how do you fit first? How do you fit with the type of work that this company wants to do and then why this company? And that is a little bit of a bonus. why this company but you definitely need a fit with what you want to do next and how this role is that thing. I see. So on that act where do you think you missed? I um yeah I thought there were more misses than not misses when you put it like that. So I don't think I mentioned the spark at all. I kind of made it like oh I was just doing these

made it like oh I was just doing these things just because they fell into my lap a little bit. growth part. I think I may have hit on some of them just inadvertently to be honest with you. And then for the fit part, yeah, I thought I completely butchered that because I think I literally said um that I've done this before. So I think I can do this for you which sure is a good start but there is nothing again like director specific about that. Right. So I guess I am curious just on the fit part um how could I have approached this differently and you know what could I have said that

and you know what could I have said that given there is a fit here and I'm I know I'm already lucky enough to have that cuz most interviews you don't you probably don't even have as strong of a fit right where you have that same exa exact job description in your resume or in your background. So in light of that, yeah, how do you how does one or how should one think about um you know nailing the fit piece of the puzzle?

nailing the fit piece of the puzzle? I think I would need to ask you that question again to kind of get to a better point because the details that you shared I couldn't catch the fit. So let's first say what is this like you said a transformation analyst right? What do they do specifically? What is that number one thing that they do? If I had to just use one word, it would be automate. Like that would be the big uh you know big headline at least is just you know say you have to request five project engineers to enter a certain number at the end of every day into like we'll just say an Excel file or whatever. So instead of you somebody pinging them there can be a system setup

pinging them there can be a system setup that would send them an email or just a team's message that hey this is your reminder to input this thing into that file. So this would come under transformation technically helpful. So what I would do if I was in your shoes is when you are talking about your work experience in the growth act you say while doing these uh projects what I realized was that the number one impact I was making was automating activities.

I was making was automating activities. Interesting. In this time when resources are at a premium, people have lean teams and want to do a lot more. I have used automation to save X number of hours or Y number of engineers every week in my current company. I can see my company using those resources and diverting them to high impact activities. So I want to come into this role of a transformation analyst looking at all the systems that you have in place and bringing creative solutions making sure that they are in the guard rails of what this company has resources for to then impact human hours and have them be used for highest leverage activities. Wow, that sounds so much better than what I have said. The thing here is introspection is extremely important. You know your story more than

important. You know your story more than anybody else. Think about what the three acts were and think about the transition between act one, act two and transition between act two, act three. The three acts again are what was the spark? Where did you see the most growth? Most likely you want to reference your past like recent recent experience like recent. Yeah. and then the fit. So those are the three acts we think of and that's what you deliver. So normally when I'm training people, what we do next is I give them another uh chance to kind of see if they can bring those improvements. Nice. With the caveat that there is a curve with this when you don't know right, you are very confident and you deliver with confidence. then you know enough of what you're doing wrong and the very next let's say five

wrong and the very next let's say five tries are shittier than the first ones. Correct? Yeah. But that's okay. More deliberate practice in that trough will actually then give you a higher peak in terms of confidence as well as what you are actually saying. Yeah, that checks out. It's like that saying, right? You always get worse before you get better. So I think that applies here for sure. So that's super helpful. Love the threeact framework. And then I think that's also a cool segue for us to jump next obviously into the big bad graph of behavioral questions, right? And I know so much has been said and written about this the star method, the star L method, the this the that you probably have six other acronyms ready to go. But can you for our listeners just set the stage a

for our listeners just set the stage a little bit for according to you what is the best way to approach a behavioral question any frameworks that you recommend work better for most people I know it's not like a one size could solve but yeah curious to see how you would approach the entire gamut of behavioral questions perfect I think I will have to give you a bit more context before I directly answer that question I think behavior questions are mainly two types. One is a screening type of a question. Another is a situational type of the question. I see. Screening questions are one that are asked by the recruiter and the hiring manager before the final rounds just to make sure that you are the right fit. Screening questions are tell me

fit. Screening questions are tell me about yourself. Why do you want to work here? Are you interviewing anywhere else? What are your salary expectations? Those are like I would say if I have to use an analogy, I'm a fan of analogy. Those are like pieces of sushi in a tasting menu. I see. Okay. They ultimately have rice in them, but each have you have to prepare differently for each of them. What you are asking about is the situational based questions.

is the situational based questions. That's right. which is tell me about a time uh you had to work with a difficult stakeholder. Tell me about a time you received push back at work. Tell me about a time you had to do make decisions with incomplete data. Right? That's where most people get. That's what most people get in the final rounds. Sometimes the recruiter will throw one or two your way in the screening. Uh the hiring manager will throw two or three in the screening. So you definitely have to be prepared for it. I think there are three levels to that reparation. Um Um it is all about how well do you want to do and so the first thing is um first level is just having a answer with a

level is just having a answer with a framework which is three letters because at the start four letters five letter framework seven letter frame seven letter frameworks very difficult to kind of practice to remember to deliver. So start with something as simple as a car framework which is context action resolved. Nice. Okay. Keep that answer to yourself. Uhhuh. You don't want to I mean yes push comes to shop you use it in an interview. interview. I think as you want to try to get better you want to kind of use better frameworks like the star like you are adding one letter right? You're adding one letter but you are now using either a star method or which is spec which is situation task action result result.

situation task action result result. Yeah. Uh or you can use the car method like context action result learning that is level two. Okay. Mhm. Which is good enough for companies that are not competitive. Now what is happening in this market is every freaking company is becoming competitive because there are more people than jobs out there. Right. Right. So this one biggest thing that I've seen with people in even when they use all these frameworks is that they are very high level like notice your tell me about yourself right you pointed out that it wasn't specific enough it didn't have a lot of color. I didn't hear a single impact metric in there, right? Even though you made I'm sure you made amazing transformation in the work that you're doing. Yeah. But no, you're

that you're doing. Yeah. But no, you're right. Mhm. That's where I think the third level comes. Before I go into the third level, any questions so far? Uh yeah and I guess not really a question but I I was just reflecting when you shared earlier and when you paused after the second framework I just realized that and it's crazy how I've never thought of this until just now but in all of the interviews that I gave and again cavearted that in I graduated in 2022 completely different market like nothing like what we have right now I was just so so lucky to be graduating at the time but I used to prepare for this stuff and then I realized when I actually went to interview most times I was not even in my head being like okay

was not even in my head being like okay S and then say situation T and then say task I was just narrating stories half the time. So I meant to ask you later after we were done with this segment just that is that did I just get really lucky or is there something to be said about you know just kind of winging it and would you recommend that but we can you can also hold up answering that before or after you've already explained the third or like the highest stage but yeah that was just my question. No, I think that's a great question and it all comes back to the tr of the the curve that I created, right? When you're winging it, you are full of confidence

winging it, you are full of confidence and you're just sharing stories, you're being personable. Yeah, that is really helpful. I think where that gets stuck is if it's a competitive market, if it's a market where you are going after the top companies, where the cream of the crop is interviewing, that's where that won't work as well. Also, it's not helping you with your career in the long term. So yeah, cuz that means that's where you are, which is good enough and probably good enough for times where there is just more uh positions to be filled than the people that are in the market. But then you start all doing this and you start to sound so robotic like that is weird that you actually are breaking yourselves when you start to prepare. And the thing is ultimately you can use any framework because the

can use any framework because the listener does not know which framework you are using. That's true. That's a good point. Yeah. The listener is not sitting that oh okay yes specific uh situation check task check they want to be engaged. They want to hear whether you are a fit for their position. And then the ultimate level in that and this will sound uh self-promoting because I do this but forget don't come to me come go to somebody else but get a mentor who can actually see objectively what you are doing and then help you with no absolutely and I think again this is probably one of the posts that you had made which is now kind of coming full circle in my head. I think you written something about being like Neo, you know, like when you finally understand the game. Does that was that you? Yes.

the game. Does that was that you? Yes. See, okay. And I thought see the matrix. Yes. Exactly. Yep. And and it made so much sense that you've practiced so much now that you are rattling off like whatever sixletter frameworks. But in a way that's actually completely normal and personable and without looking like a robot. And you can only get there with practice which I think is what you were getting at which yeah that makes total sense. Yeah. You can only get that after breaking yourself uh and sounding robotic. Yes. Because that position has the confidence and uh oh uh bravado of the first position while also sharing amazing content that will catch you get you ahead. Nice. Nice. Yep. That's the goal, right? That's that's the point of all of this. Awesome. Yeah. So, what was

all of this. Awesome. Yeah. So, what was the third and final level? I'm fully prepared for like a seven letter acronym here. And it is not a sevenletter acronym. Okay. So, the method that I teach my mentees to get to that third level is something I called the BMS framework. Bones, muscle and skin framework. So imagine the story you are sharing is a muscle. This situation happened. Here's how I took action. This is the result. This was my learning. You can have a four-letter framework. I doesn't matter. Number of letters in a framework does not matter. Okay? Imagine that is the muscle. But what I realize is that if you just stick with that, you may not end up sharing specifics. you may not end up sharing answers that are important for the listener to hear. So I

important for the listener to hear. So I added bones on one side and skin on the other. So what are bones? Bones are again relating to what you said which was introspect. What did you add to the table? So that is the bones. You need strong bones to build your story around so that even within the story you can share the specifics. You can share the tools. You can share the frameworks. Guess what you didn't do in your tell me about yourself. You didn't talk about tools.

yourself. You didn't talk about tools. You didn't talk about any frameworks that you had used. And that's okay. You don't need to give a lot of information but some nuggets to kind of continue to say that you are applicable to this room. So the bones if you want to prepare bones right take any project and say why did this company do this project? What was the technical reason? What was the business reason? How did I execute on it? Like what were the technical steps? What were the tools I used? What were the frameworks I used?

I used? What were the frameworks I used? And then finally, what was the impact of the work? Why, how, what, what was the technical impact, what was the business impact. So now you have this muscle, the story built on the bones of the project and the skin is nothing but a good wrapping of that story. Mhm. For the viewer or for the listener, if we are seeing bones and muscles on somebody without the skin, it's like okay uh that was class 12 biology, right? I don't want that to happen again. Yeah. So the skin is basically editing your answer, looking at everything that you have in the answer, removing the fluff, and making sure you're sharing the specifics that are relatable to this word. That is the BMS framework. That's level three.

the BMS framework. That's level three. And it doesn't matter which framework you use for the muscle part or the story part. Select one that feels natural to you. It is more important to share the bones of the project as well as make sure that you are editing in the skin part to showcase only things that are in Shifting gears just a little bit. Obviously, you've been mentoring people, helping so many people for so long now.

helping so many people for so long now. really wanted to kind of pick your brain around what are some of the most common pitfalls that you see with most people you know agnostic of we'll just pretend to be agnostic of industries maybe even career um what's the word here like career uh like where they are in their careers like middle higher or whatever. So yeah, really just looking to kind of consolidate all of your experience into just really lowhanging fruit that is quick and easy fixes but that most people struggle with that you see any random patterns like that that you see.

random patterns like that that you see. I think that's a good one. Something surprising I have seen is that interviewing actually becomes harder as you get more experience because you have more things to share. So you tend to ramble a lot more because now okay I want to give you this thing I want to give you that as well I want to give you this skill that skill. So I've seen that as people get more experienced one they stay at a particular company longer so their muscle has atrophied a little bit and then they have just too much to share. So I think interviewing becomes more difficult. Again the air becomes thinner as you get hired in your career. So the competition is high too.

career. So the competition is high too. So all of that plays a role in the interviewing becoming a little bit more difficult as you go along. Your question. Yeah. Uhhuh. Go ahead. Yeah. I was just saying and then the way to get around that though is to just practice right at the end of the day there's no saving anybody from that that is not willing to practice a lot or is that like absolutely I think I was going to use a cricket analogy but a football and or I don't know which would be the best for your audience but I'm just going to stick with cricket right uh why Surya still has to net practice and Virat Kohli still has to net practice it's just practice is just the name of is

just practice is just the name of is okay. Um, so lowhanging fruit, right? I think lowhanging fruit would be smile more. I think people just are like deer in front of headlights, nerves, balls of anxiety. So just relaxing, smiling more is I think an instant tip that I can give to be better at interviews because look, you are talking to people. Nobody wants to you know talk to somebody for 60 minutes who are at the edge of their seat and nervous. So relaxing, smiling is one thing. I actually wrote down a few in prep. So another lowhanging fruit is not answering the question. Like a lot of times even in mock interviews if I'm asking you how you changed a stakeholder's mind and if you are talking about just a project where you innovated then

innovated then I'm I'm stuck as an interviewer right and it happens more often than you think and I will succumb to this as well that I do it too. I mean in this whole podcast interview there could be a possibility that I'm not answering the question that you are asking. You know obviously I've gotten reps now where I've gotten better where my hit rate is better. So it happens more often than you think which is answer the question.

you think which is answer the question. A good way to do that is just make a note of the question in your notebook. You don't need to just tell your answer as soon as the other person just stops speaking. Yeah, speed is not complete. So, we even heard that they recommend that you should say the question back before you start answering it. But obviously, you can't do that every time or then you're just like a weird robot.

or then you're just like a weird robot. But, but when you're unsure, it makes sense to like just say the question back and be like, "Is that right?" And they'll be like, "Yes, absolutely." Yeah, absolutely. That's a great point as well. So, write in a notebook, reiterate, revalidate the question as well. I think people just go way too fast in interviews like I don't know anything about you right so I am such a fresh listener that you have to bring me along in the conversation and this is not a medium where I have slides or I have call outs coming out in a YouTube video where you know you can hold my attention yeah in that way this is just straight up you speaking to that person.

straight up you speaking to that person. So speak a little slower than your normal pace and bring them along as you go. And then the final lowhanging fruit I will share is that conclude strongly. The first few things you say, the last few things you say have a disproportionate disproportionate impact on the listener's opinion. So true. Conclude in a way that is strong. some because sometimes even when I'm doing mock interviews, I feel like the person is ending on a great note and then they lift off again. It's like a red plane. It's like h it's landing, landing, landing. Oh, gone again. And they started to speak again. I was like, "Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait." Or they are in the air at 5,000 ft and they just do this and then I'm like, "Okay, is okay, you ended?" I I'm not really sure.

okay, you ended?" I I'm not really sure. So no matter what you do, have a strong conclusion statement. Hey, this was the learning of from this project or upon reflection, this is what I realized. Here is my biggest takeaway from this project. The most insightful thing from this project as a conclusion is I needed to do X better going forward. There are many ways to conclude but have a conclusion statement that I would say is the lowhanging fruit. There are many other things but they are not lowhanging fruit. They are hard to implement.

fruit. They are hard to implement. Right. No, that's super awesome. And ju just a quick follow up on the conclusion is like 30 seconds is that decent enough? Like is there a right range of how long a conclusion should be? Just curious. not the conclusion but I think the reason why you know people give the advice about resumes that oh you should have a one pager if you're early career it is not that you will get rejected if it's not a one pager it's just that you will fill it with fluff if you go beyond one page true same thing applies to the interviewing which is a good interview answer would be 90 to 120 seconds you can definitely go beyond on that there is no strict ruth. The only thing

is no strict ruth. The only thing happens beyond 120 seconds is that now your communication skills are thoroughly in review. Are you being engaging? Are you giving me structure? Now you are at the risk of rambling if you don't have advanced communication. Yep. And I think I read something around this. This is also true for rums, right? That are really long. Each word must be its rent which I think is such a helpful framework to think about after after the 120 minute or 120 second mark. Yeah, as you said, sure, go on, but remember that now the pressure is really on and yeah, make sure that the rent is being paid because it is due with each word. Um, and then I know like most of or actually

and then I know like most of or actually everything that we've discussed so far just kind of applies across the board to any interviewer ever. But I did have just one question that comes specifically from um students from India, right? Um that are obviously trying to find jobs here. And one thing that they say cuz often just for various reasons, their like spoken English isn't the most Americanized, you know, for lack of a better term. they have like their almost colloquial accents that just is kind of heavy and such. So something that I get asked a lot just by like mentees that I try to help sometimes um obviously not at the scale of you but just people that DM me randomly. Um they're like how should I approach this? Should we fake an accent?

approach this? Should we fake an accent? Should we talk quickly? Like what's your take on this? Actually I'm just curious to you know pick your brain on this. I would have love to ask you this question because sometimes you don't know how you speak. So you understand Indian accents. I'm a Mumbai guy. Give me a percentage to to which I've held on to my accent. What what kind of percentage is it like my Indian accent? Yeah, I would say 70 at least. Okay. Yeah, cool. I think that's a that's a good number. I I all and this is me getting very engineer about this, but I know that I want to hold on to my ax. Okay. It's just part

hold on to my ax. Okay. It's just part of my identity. It's a choice that you have made, right? It's a choice that I have made across the last 15 years. I know there is going to be some adulteration for a lack of a better word or like I say content which for sure is not how we say uh back in Yeah. Certain words change. I agree like Yeah. Even just being like I can't do it, you know.

just being like I can't do it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what I would say to that is I am somebody who wants to hold on to my accent. It's an intentional part of just the way I communicate for that. I'm okay to go slower to kind of make sure that people understand. I'm okay to repeat things as well. So what should somebody do? The thing is I have seen people come to the US and change that accent in 2 months as well. My point is do what feels naturally to you but know that you don't have to change your accent just to fit in. There are enough people out there who are doing amazing have amazing careers in the US have held on to majority of their Indian accent. I think there are many more ways to get better

there are many more ways to get better at communication than you consider changing your accent. I think that's that's definitely the headline for me. That last line that you just said definitely rings true. Um so yeah, awesome. Now I have something to tell these people. Um again, so kind of going into the last little bits of our little chat here. So I know you've posted extensively around keeping oneself up to date when it comes to the latest and greatest that AI tools and resources and stuff like that have to offer to not only upskill as we practice but even you know just across the board right coming up with as you were saying it'll help you get to a B+ and then you can wordsmith that to get better and such.

wordsmith that to get better and such. So obviously I know this is like an extensive subject but similar to low hanging fruits that you had shared earlier about just interviewing. What are some of the most nifty tricks that you have found that AI specifically is really good at that most people out there can and should really be leveraging to get better uh with interviewing. I think AI is awesome. I really believe it is one of the best ways to get really good at your job search. The only thing the biggest caveat I will say is that it is just not trained on your data. That is something that you have to bring to the table. So look at your last five projects. Do a why, how, what analysis that I shared earlier in this chat. And once you have

earlier in this chat. And once you have that document, now you can start feeding that document to AI that here's my why, how, here's my resume, what should I improve, how should I improve my bullets, etc. So AI tools are great. I personally use Chad GPT. I think the Chad GBT plus version is something that people should definitely get when they are doing their job search. You can do uh pro versions of other AI tools as well and that is good enough as well. I know a friend who's doing uh his job search. He's not part of the program. So he I have not been I haven't pushed him on chibi beauty plus he uses perplexity pro and he thinks it's good. So doesn't matter any pro version u would be great.

matter any pro version u would be great. I think there are tools like udi.ai which are great for mock interviews. LinkedIn has its own mock interview tool. I think Google has its own mock interview tool. And these are free ones. At least the Google and LinkedIn one are free. So you can use that. Got so sorry I'm not familiar. So is it just does it simulate? So you talk to the AI and it talks back. Is that is that how that works? I think it's differently for different things usually. Yes. You can have like a conversation and it will tell you metrics about whether you are uh whether there's eye contact, whether you are monotonous, uh whether you are um um just different stats like that. I forget

just different stats like that. I forget exactly what those stats are. That makes sense. Yeah. When it comes to Google and LinkedIn, I think LinkedIn one is interesting. They give you sample answers and then you can upload a audio file or you can speak to it and it will give you a review. something similar with Google as well. Got it. That's helpful. Gotcha. I'll give one one tip to people uh which is going to be extremely helpful if you are willing to do it which is take your freaking phone out and just record yourself answering a question. After that, stop recording and sit through the recording. It is hell cringeworthy to see yourself say an answer on audio all or a video but you will yourself notice where you're getting stuck where you are boring where

getting stuck where you are boring where you are monotonous and I think if there is any tool that I would suggest people do is just li out your phone record yourself and just watch. Watching is important tool. Can this be extended to also recording interviews like actual interviews too so that then you can kind of watch your highlights and figure out what you did well into or is that can that be harmful for some people? Not that's not a good idea from the standpoint that you are recording somebody else in the process. That's just that's the gray area. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. cuz I was just like you know like we have sports matches right I'm sure coaches play back just football matches uh aspects of them where you should have made this pass well which they would never know but

well which they would never know but you're right I think that is an ethical gray area which obviously yeah um and then yeah finally I know this is probably the toughest aspect at least according to me right maybe you will differ but in everything that we have discussed but I'm really just as a person really I've always been so interested in exploring just the meta of an interview. So I am somebody that kind of unknowingly, if I'm being honest, trained myself to be really good at talking to strangers. Like if you put me beside some person, even if we have we can exchange a few words of some language that I can barely speak, I still find that I can do decently with engaging them, you know, one way or the other. Where I realized this started being really helpful was actually when I started interviewing because I was like,

started interviewing because I was like, "Oh, this is the same thing. This is just a stranger. This just this is just a stranger. This stranger happens to have a lot of autonomy over my life, but they don't know that and I don't need to know that. I just need to engage with them." And that was kind of my mindset through a lot of my interviews. And then I talked to my friends about it and they were like, "Are you a sociopath? Like what is wrong with you? This is not how we work.

wrong with you? This is not how we work. This is so nervous." So I guess long long uh question short what I'm trying to get at here is are there ways to just day in the life for people to train themselves to be better at you know almost like dancing that dance like you've done your preparation you've done everything you know your stuff can you out I don't know what's the right word here but yeah does that make sense I'll just stop and see if if any of this is even making sense for you that definitely makes sense and it is a bit relatable because I have been an extrovert my life. Uh and I do find interviews in a way fun. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

interviews in a way fun. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Exactly. So I can totally understand. What I will tell you is that the journey I had to go through as an extrovert or somebody who was very comfortable talking to people is that it is a strength that you have to use to kind of then add practice to it if you really want to get good. So naturally you're good but now frameworks practice steps will make you really good. So you are actually doing really well. So there are many players who are naturals but they are flash in the pan if they don't practice. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that checks out or they don't continue to evolve. Right. So even any people who are like you and I who find interviewing

are like you and I who find interviewing fun know that there are still levels to the game that you can achieve and you probably should because in in a way you are natural at it. It's great to use that strength but every skill can be developed. Yeah. And it's almost a shame for you to not develop it, right? Given you apparently if you have such an advantage, why aren't you, you know, like the Virat Kohli of interviewing, right? Get there if you're so good.

right? Get there if you're so good. Which I think I do agree with that. Uh that's so helpful. And then lastly, probably the most common fear that people come up to with interviews is like they're feeling nervous. So, and I'm I know this is so trite, right? And it's almost embarrassing to ask you this, but what do you recommend to your mentees letter? Like I have this big interview coming up. I work so hard for this. I'm but I'm really nervous. What can I do to, you know, show up in as my best self and not let my nervousness work against me? So, frankly, I was not good at helping people do this initially because I I I couldn't empathize and be in their shoes. I mean, I could empathize. Yeah. But I couldn't really

empathize. Yeah. But I couldn't really see myself there. I can relate to that. Yeah. Because I don't know what to tell my friends when they ask me and I'm just like, I don't know. So, yeah. Yeah. But sorry, continue. But I couldn't stop, right? I had to help people. So, I have had now mentees who have interviewed at companies like Apple and Amazon and stuff like that who were very nervous who are very nervous. Now my first thing to help them get over this nervousness is to help them prepare. So good answers, mock interviews and prepared. Does that solve everything? It does not. It if your nature is that somebody who looks at this stressful situation, it is very natural to feel very nervous about it.

natural to feel very nervous about it. The thing that I share with them goes into the softer realm of things and different things work for different people. So for somebody a walk kind of helps them and just like talking to themselves and and just going for a walk helps. For some it is visualization that helps that they are doing well in the interview. uh they visualize themselves being confident and for some you just have to fake it till you make it. All of these are options that I cannot say are like the BMS framework like you know you you do this or just depends. Yeah. Yeah. It just depends. It's the softer side of things. You need to try a few things to figure out what works. You can still be nervous, but I can bet you that the 10th

nervous, but I can bet you that the 10th time you do it, I know sometimes 10 times are not something that people get in this job market, but in life you probably will interview 10 times, right? So yeah, but the the nerves are a important I mean are a natural part of it. You have to kind of figure out what will help and it is a little bit of the softer side. It is meditation. It is visualization. It is faking it till you make it. It is going for a walk, doing gardening, whatever the case is to kind of help you get into the mind space where you can perform. Maybe we should think about what they did in times of exams, what

what they did in times of exams, what they did when they were giving vivas. I think that's that's probably what helps. What I will say is that you are never rejected for being nervous. That's what I have noticed is that if somebody has a lot of confidence, it's not necessary that they are the ones selected. It all depends on the overall package. What do you say?

the overall package. What do you say? How are you a fit? What kind of things that you do to make yourself stand out. So even if you are nervous, people land jobs. And I have seen those people who are nervous, who got a little bit better but are still a bit nervous land amazing job offers as well. Yeah, that's what I was thinking about. It almost has a way of endearing you to the interviewer, right? But they almost kind of like ah let's protect them. You know, they're nervous versus somebody that's so confident that they're borderline cocky.

confident that they're borderline cocky. Like I know who I'm picking between these two people, right? It's it's a no-brainer. Of course, you're going to pick the more personable Um nervous nervous buddy. Um one of the really weird advices that I got around this was as soon as you join an interview like when the person comes on just for like 2 seconds picture them just waking up and it it is something that did you know help me a lot and it was just almost just like a funny thing that I was not trying to think about it but it just kind of showed up. So yeah I guess just added that in in the sense that yeah there is no right answer. You just figure out a path that works for you.

figure out a path that works for you. There is I remember something similar. I There is a book called Charisma on Command by I heard of it. Yeah. Olivia Olivia Fox. Kaban, please check and and make sure. Mhm. Um she had a theory or a strategy where you should visualize the other person having angel wings behind them. Oh wow. Why? Sorry. How does that how I think that makes you naturally smile a bit and then be engaged to what they are saying. Uh that's the theory and I have tried that from time to time.

and I have tried that from time to time. It is interesting but I can't I can't really see what my face is doing but that is one another on the lines that you should Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No totally. I'm sure like Yeah. I think the TLDDR here is there is a way figure it out. it's probably there. It's just agency problem for you to solve. But yeah, it is solvable. Um before we wrap up here, I do want to give you the chance to um share anything that you want to just in terms of any parting advice, anything that we did not hit on that you know you think it's important for our listeners to know. Obviously, they'll know where to find you cuz we will make sure that

to find you cuz we will make sure that all of your you know, all the places to find you are linked. But yeah, just wanted to give you the chance to you know close out or share anything else that you want. I appreciate that. I think one of the things that I have seen is when I share frameworks where I share different ways of looking at how you can get better at interviewing the first thing that comes to people's mind is overwhelm which is holy how how am I able to do all of this? Even when you said three three frame, I was like what? How are the two stages to tell behavioral questions? So yeah, but I can definitely relate. It's very easy to find yourself overwhelmed

very easy to find yourself overwhelmed and what I will say is one that you are right. It is overwhelming but you don't need to do everything on day one. You kind of continue to get better at it. Like just like your technical knowledge, you didn't add whatever skill set you had on day one. You just continue to gain those skill sets. Even within a year, you look back, uh it looks a lot like you've done a lot. Mhm. Yeah. And interviewing is easier than that. So it will not take you a year to kind of get better at interviewing. Enough to kind of get you to your next spot. Then you can work on the next spot. So even if it

can work on the next spot. So even if it is overwhelming, which it is, when you're trying to get better at it, but you don't need to get from point A to point B on day one, just take it one step at a time. Continue to practice, and you will definitely get better in this job search cycle cycle because I feel that the ultimate goal is more important. If you get better at interviewing, it means you are getting better at communicating your experience and your impact. Both of the things that will help you in your new job and help you get career progression. So, think of that from that lens. Yeah. Yeah. Almost as if interviewing can be looked upon as a life skill and it's this is a lesson

a life skill and it's this is a lesson for me and anybody that's listening just out of curiosity that's not actively interviewing currently. This is my, you know, signal to not let my foot off the pedal cuz I I can't just not, you know, be good at this cuz we we don't know when when calamity might strike. And yeah, I I that's such a good takeaway in terms of it's a life skill. There is no such thing as being perfect at interviewing. You can always get better and you should always at least keep in the back of your mind the idea of getting better. But Vun, thanks so much for taking the time here today. truly

for taking the time here today. truly can't thank you enough. I just feel like I've, you know, learned so much and I'm sure anybody that's listening will be taking away so many so so many insights from what you've shared with us. Um, yeah. So, yeah, thanks for taking the time and anybody that's listening, please go follow Vun and so that you can get all of this advice straight on your LinkedIn timeline instead of uh, you know, just coming on podcasts on YouTube and such. So, thanks. Thanks so much.

and such. So, thanks. Thanks so much. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. That brings us to the end of that episode with Vun Gandhi. Clearly, you saw me put on the spot there and I hope you took away from it as much as I did. Thank you all for sharing these episodes with those that continue to benefit from them. If you would like to support me, the easiest way to do that is by subscribing on YouTube and leaving me up to a fivestar rating on Spotify or any of your favorite podcast apps.

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